{"id":763481,"date":"2025-10-01T20:22:37","date_gmt":"2025-10-01T18:22:37","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.hashtag.al\/?p=763481"},"modified":"2025-10-01T20:38:55","modified_gmt":"2025-10-01T18:38:55","slug":"intervista-e-detajuar-si-e-kupton-boten-ish-shefi-i-mossadit-yossi-cohen","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.hashtag.al\/index.php\/2025\/10\/01\/intervista-e-detajuar-si-e-kupton-boten-ish-shefi-i-mossadit-yossi-cohen\/","title":{"rendered":"INTERVISTA E DETAJUAR – Si e kupton bot\u00ebn (ish) Shefi i Mossadit\u00a0Yossi\u00a0Cohen","gt_translate_keys":[{"key":"rendered","format":"text"}]},"content":{"rendered":"

\"\"<\/a><\/p>\n

Nga <\/i><\/b><\/em><\/strong>Barry Weiss<\/i><\/b><\/em><\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n

Yossi Cohen, <\/span>ish-drejtori i Mossadit, agjencis\u00eb s\u00eb inteligjenc\u00ebs s\u00eb Izraelit – e kaloi pjes\u00ebn m\u00eb t\u00eb madhe t\u00eb karrier\u00ebs s\u00eb tij 38-vje\u00e7are si spiun n\u00eb hije. Ai njihej vet\u00ebm me nj\u00eb shkronj\u00eb: Y, ose ndonj\u00ebher\u00eb “Modeli”, me sa duket p\u00ebr pamjen e tij. Ai ishte, si\u00e7 shkruan, “nj\u00eb fantazm\u00eb, q\u00eb nuk shihej kurr\u00eb dhe nuk d\u00ebgjohej kurr\u00eb. Isha i paduksh\u00ebm, nj\u00eb puhiz\u00eb ere n\u00eb form\u00eb njer\u00ebzore”. <\/span><\/p>\n

Cohen operoi n\u00ebn dhjet\u00ebra identitete t\u00eb ndryshme n\u00eb disa nga vendet m\u00eb t\u00eb rrezikshme p\u00ebr nj\u00eb izraelit dhe ai personalisht orkestroi disa nga operacionet m\u00eb t\u00eb guximshme n\u00eb historin\u00eb e Izraelit: vjedhja e gjysm\u00eb ton dokumentesh b\u00ebrthamore m\u00eb sekrete t\u00eb Iranit nga nj\u00eb depo n\u00eb Teheran; vrasja e shkenc\u00ebtarit m\u00eb t\u00eb mir\u00eb b\u00ebrthamor t\u00eb Iranit duke p\u00ebrdorur nj\u00eb mitraloz t\u00eb mund\u00ebsuar nga inteligjenca artificiale t\u00eb operuar nga larg\u00ebsia n\u00ebp\u00ebrmjet satelitit; p\u00ebrgatitja e sken\u00ebs p\u00ebr sulmin me pager q\u00eb gjymtoi Hezbollahun vitin e kaluar; krijimi i marr\u00ebdh\u00ebnieve sekrete me udh\u00ebheq\u00ebsit arab\u00eb – marr\u00ebdh\u00ebnie q\u00eb ndryshuan drejtimin e Lindjes s\u00eb Mesme. <\/span><\/p>\n

N\u00ebse shikoni n\u00eb internet, do d\u00ebgjoni se Mossadi ka qen\u00eb pas gjith\u00e7kaje, nga cunamet, te p\u00ebrmbytjet e deri te vrasjet politike t\u00eb amerikan\u00ebve t\u00eb famsh\u00ebm.<\/span><\/p>\n

K\u00ebshtu q\u00eb nuk mund t\u00eb mendoj p\u00ebr ask\u00ebnd m\u00eb t\u00eb mir\u00eb sesa Cohen p\u00ebr t’iu p\u00ebrgjigjur pyetjes se \u00e7far\u00eb b\u00ebn n\u00eb t\u00eb v\u00ebrtet\u00eb Mossadi dhe p\u00ebr t\u00eb adresuar komplotet e pafundme q\u00eb sillen rreth versionit izraelit t\u00eb CIA-s. <\/span><\/p>\n

Sot do flasim p\u00ebr t\u00eb gjitha k\u00ebto. \u00cbsht\u00eb nj\u00eb v\u00ebshtrim i rrall\u00eb brenda Mossadit, brenda bot\u00ebs s\u00eb spiunazhit t\u00eb v\u00ebrtet\u00eb dhe nj\u00eb bised\u00eb me nj\u00eb njeri q\u00eb ndihmoi n\u00eb form\u00ebsimin e historis\u00eb nga hijet dhe i cili qart\u00ebsisht po shqyrton nj\u00eb kandidim p\u00ebr kryeminist\u00ebr.<\/span><\/p>\n

INTERVISTA<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n

Un\u00eb jam Barry\u00a0Weiss. N\u00ebse jeni si un\u00eb, ju jeni t\u00eb dh\u00ebn\u00eb pas serialeve t\u00eb mir\u00eb\u00a0me\u00a0spiunazh. Homeland, Tehran, Fauda, The Bureau…mund t\u00eb vazhdoj\u00a0edhe m\u00eb tej. I kam par\u00eb t\u00eb gjitha. Jam e\u00a0magjepsur nga jeta e spiun\u00ebve, takimet sekrete, jet\u00ebt e dyfishta dhe t\u00eb trefishta, gjithmon\u00eb nj\u00eb hap larg zbulimit. Ndoshta sepse kurr\u00eb nuk mund ta p\u00ebrfytyroja veten duke b\u00ebr\u00eb di\u00e7ka t\u00eb till\u00eb.<\/span><\/p>\n

Shumic\u00ebn e koh\u00ebs, ato personazhe q\u00eb shohim n\u00eb TV jan\u00eb trillime t\u00eb pastra. Tregimet jan\u00eb material i Hollywood-it. Por libri i ri i mikut tim, “Shpata e Liris\u00eb” (The Sword of Freedom), lexohet fiks si nj\u00eb nga ato trillerat fantastik\u00eb, me p\u00ebrjashtim t\u00eb faktit se \u00e7do fjal\u00eb e tij \u00ebsht\u00eb e v\u00ebrtet\u00eb.<\/span><\/p>\n

Yossi Cohen, ish-drejtori i Mossad-it, agjencis\u00eb s\u00eb inteligjenc\u00ebs s\u00eb Izraelit, kaloi pjes\u00ebn m\u00eb t\u00eb madhe t\u00eb karrier\u00ebs s\u00eb tij 38-vje\u00e7are t\u00eb spiunazhit n\u00eb hije. Ai njihej vet\u00ebm me nj\u00eb shkronj\u00eb, Y, ose ndonj\u00ebher\u00eb “Modeli” (The Model), nj\u00eb referenc\u00eb p\u00ebr pamjen e tij t\u00eb\u00a0k\u00ebndshme. Ai ishte, si\u00e7 shkruan, nj\u00eb fantazm\u00eb, s\u2019mund t\u00eb shihej kurr\u00eb, s\u2019mund t\u00eb d\u00ebgjohej kurr\u00eb.<\/span><\/p>\n

“Isha i paduksh\u00ebm, nj\u00eb\u00a0puhi ere n\u00eb form\u00eb njer\u00ebzore.”<\/span><\/em><\/p>\n

Cohen operoi n\u00ebn mij\u00ebra identitete t\u00eb ndryshme n\u00eb disa nga vendet m\u00eb t\u00eb rrezikshme p\u00ebr nj\u00eb izraelit. Dhe ai personalisht orkestroi disa nga operacionet m\u00eb t\u00eb guximshme n\u00eb historin\u00eb e vendit t\u00eb tij, si vjedhja e gjysm\u00eb toni dokumentesh b\u00ebrthamore m\u00eb sekrete t\u00eb Iranit nga nj\u00eb depo n\u00eb Teheran, vrasja e shkenc\u00ebtarit kryesor b\u00ebrthamor t\u00eb Iranit duke p\u00ebrdorur nj\u00eb mitraloz t\u00eb fuqizuar nga AI, t\u00eb operuar n\u00eb distanc\u00eb p\u00ebrmes satelitit, ose vendosja e baz\u00ebs p\u00ebr sulmin me beeper q\u00eb paralizoi Hezbollahun vitin e kaluar. Ai gjithashtu krijoi marr\u00ebdh\u00ebnie sekrete me lider\u00ebt arab\u00eb, marr\u00ebdh\u00ebnie q\u00eb ndryshuan drejtimin e Lindjes s\u00eb Mesme.<\/span><\/p>\n

N\u00ebse shikoni n\u00eb internet k\u00ebto dit\u00eb, do t\u00eb d\u00ebgjoni se Mossad-i ka qen\u00eb pas gjith\u00e7kaje, nga cunamet te p\u00ebrmbytjet te vrasjet politike t\u00eb amerikan\u00ebve t\u00eb famsh\u00ebm. K\u00ebshtu q\u00eb, nuk mund t\u00eb mendoja p\u00ebr ask\u00ebnd m\u00eb t\u00eb mir\u00eb p\u00ebr t’iu p\u00ebrgjigjur pyetjes se \u00e7far\u00eb b\u00ebn Mossad-i dhe p\u00ebr t’iu drejtuar komplotecave q\u00eb rrotullohen rreth versionit izraelit t\u00eb CIA-s, sesa Cohen.<\/span><\/p>\n

Biseda e sotme \u00ebsht\u00eb nj\u00eb v\u00ebshtrim i rrall\u00eb brenda bot\u00ebs s\u00eb hijeve t\u00eb Mossad-it. Nj\u00eb bised\u00eb me nj\u00eb burr\u00eb q\u00eb ndihmoi n\u00eb form\u00ebsimin e historis\u00eb nga hijet dhe q\u00eb tani \u00ebsht\u00eb hapur dhe po shqyrton nj\u00eb kandidim p\u00ebr kryeminist\u00ebr. Q\u00ebndroni me ne.<\/span><\/p>\n

\"\"<\/a><\/p>\n

Weiss<\/span>: Yossi Cohen, mir\u00eb se vini tek Honestly.<\/span><\/p>\n

Yossi Cohen<\/span>: Faleminderit shum\u00eb q\u00eb m\u00eb ftove.<\/span><\/p>\n

Weiss:<\/span> Epo, shum\u00eb njer\u00ebz n\u00eb internet besojn\u00eb se ju jeni shefi im, sepse ata besojn\u00eb se un\u00eb jam nj\u00eb an\u00ebtare e Mossad-it. Por kjo \u00ebsht\u00eb n\u00eb t\u00eb v\u00ebrtet\u00eb hera e par\u00eb q\u00eb un\u00eb takoj ju, ose t\u00eb pakt\u00ebn me aq sa di un\u00eb, ndonj\u00eb an\u00ebtar t\u00eb Mossad-it. K\u00ebshtu q\u00eb, jam shum\u00eb e emocionuar q\u00eb po ju takoj.<\/span><\/p>\n

Yossi Cohen<\/span>: Un\u00eb jam i pari q\u00eb ke takuar ndonj\u00ebher\u00eb, por e dini, mund t\u00eb ket\u00eb\u2026mund t\u00eb kem takuar njer\u00ebz. Mund t\u00eb ket\u00eb t\u00eb tjer\u00eb q\u00eb\u2026<\/span><\/p>\n

Weiss:<\/span> Pik\u00ebrisht. Epo, ti do m\u00eb zbulosh mua n\u00eb k\u00ebt\u00eb bised\u00eb, natyrisht, t\u00eb gjith\u00eb operativ\u00ebt e fsheht\u00eb q\u00eb un\u00eb mund t’i kem takuar pa e ditur.<\/span><\/p>\n

Yossi Cohen:<\/span> Nuk mund ta b\u00ebj k\u00ebt\u00eb. M\u00eb vjen keq. Por mund t\u00eb deklaroj se ti nuk je pjes\u00eb e operacioneve t\u00eb mia.<\/span><\/p>\n

Weiss:<\/span> Faleminderit shum\u00eb. Ti nuk je, nuk ke qen\u00eb kurr\u00eb, nj\u00eb “objekt” si\u00e7 i quajm\u00eb ne, apo nj\u00eb operator vet\u00eb. A nuk mendon se un\u00eb do t\u00eb isha spiunia m\u00eb e\u00a0keqe?<\/span><\/p>\n

Yossi Cohen<\/span>: Sigurisht. Jo, un\u00eb mendoj se ti do ishe n\u00eb rregull.<\/span><\/p>\n

Weiss:<\/span> V\u00ebrtet?<\/span><\/p>\n

Yossi Cohen:<\/span> A d\u00ebshiron t\u00eb provosh?<\/span><\/p>\n

Weiss:<\/span> Le t\u00eb arrijm\u00eb tek kjo m\u00eb von\u00eb gjat\u00eb bised\u00ebs, sepse po pyes veten p\u00ebr cil\u00ebsit\u00eb q\u00eb k\u00ebrkon t\u00eb qenit n\u00eb Mossad, dhe ti shkruan n\u00eb librin t\u00ebnd rreth…Pra, thjesht p\u00ebr t’ua sqaruar njer\u00ebzve, ti ishe n\u00eb Mossad p\u00ebr 38 vjet, apo jo? Duke u ngritur nga nj\u00eb oficer I thjesht\u00eb \u00e7\u00ebshtjesh n\u00eb mosh\u00ebn 22 vje\u00e7are, deri n\u00eb drejtimin e gjith\u00eb organizat\u00ebs.<\/span><\/p>\n

P\u00ebrpara se t\u00eb flasim p\u00ebr nj\u00eb nga gj\u00ebrat q\u00eb shkruan n\u00eb k\u00ebt\u00eb lib\u00ebr, e cila \u00ebsht\u00eb se ke nj\u00eb gjen n\u00eb trupin t\u00ebnd p\u00ebr t\u00eb qen\u00eb n\u00eb Mossad, di\u00e7ka q\u00eb dua t\u00eb diskutoj, m\u00eb par\u00eb, dua t’ua shpjegoj njer\u00ebzve, sepse Mossad-i \u00ebsht\u00eb nj\u00eb agjenci q\u00eb \u00ebsht\u00eb e mb\u00ebshtjell\u00eb me kaq shum\u00eb komplot dhe propagand\u00eb. Pyetje e thjesht\u00eb, Yossi, \u00e7far\u00eb \u00ebsht\u00eb Mossad-i?<\/span><\/p>\n

\u00a0<\/b><\/strong><\/span>\u00c7far\u00eb \u00ebsht\u00eb Mossad-i<\/b><\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n

Yossi Cohen:<\/span> Epo, Mossad-i \u00ebsht\u00eb nj\u00eb organ operacional inteligjence. Dua t\u00eb them, nj\u00eb nga\u00a0disa prej tyre, do thoja, tre t\u00eb r\u00ebnd\u00ebsishmit q\u00eb mbulojn\u00eb nevojat e mbrojtjes son\u00eb n\u00eb shtetin e Izraelit.<\/span><\/p>\n

Ekziston Shin Bet ose Shabak-u yn\u00eb, FBI-ja lokale si\u00e7 e quajn\u00eb zakonisht. Ata mbledhin inteligjenc\u00eb dhe operojn\u00eb brenda shtetit t\u00eb Izraelit dhe natyrisht n\u00eb Judea dhe Samaria, n\u00eb Bregun Per\u00ebndimor dhe n\u00eb Gaza.<\/span><\/p>\n

Ekziston Inteligjenca Ushtarake q\u00eb mbulon m\u00eb shum\u00eb se aq, duke p\u00ebrfshir\u00eb 8200-shin, si\u00e7 i quajm\u00eb n\u00eb Hebraisht, dhe gj\u00ebra t\u00eb tjera.\u00a0Mossad-i \u00ebsht\u00eb i vetmi organ operativ jasht\u00eb shtetit t\u00eb Izraelit, dhe ne operojm\u00eb prapa vijave t\u00eb armikut. Vijat e armikut mund t\u00eb jen\u00eb kudo n\u00ebp\u00ebr bot\u00eb ku \u00ebsht\u00eb e nevojshme q\u00eb ne t\u00eb veprojm\u00eb.<\/span><\/p>\n

Pra, \u00e7far\u00eb b\u00ebjm\u00eb ne? Ne jemi aty p\u00ebr t\u00eb mbledhur inteligjenc\u00eb. Ne duhet t\u00eb dim\u00eb se \u00e7far\u00eb po planifikon armiku p\u00ebr ne. Ky armik num\u00ebr nj\u00eb mund t\u00eb jet\u00eb nj\u00eb iranian ose nj\u00eb terrorist. Ata q\u00eb po p\u00ebrpiqen t\u00eb nd\u00ebrtojn\u00eb arm\u00eb b\u00ebrthamore p\u00ebr t\u00eb shfarosur shtetin e Izraelit, ose ata q\u00eb po p\u00ebrpiqen t\u00eb na vrasin ne, izraelit\u00ebt ose popullin hebre n\u00eb mbar\u00eb bot\u00ebn, apo edhe qytetar\u00eb t\u00eb tjer\u00eb. Pra, detyra e Mossad-it \u00ebsht\u00eb t\u00eb dij\u00eb dhe t\u00eb pengoj\u00eb\u00a0dhe m\u00eb pas t\u00eb anuloj\u00eb gj\u00ebrat e tyre ideologjike dhe t\u00eb ndyra q\u00eb i shkruajn\u00eb pa u ndalur kund\u00ebr shtetit t\u00eb Izraelit. K\u00ebshtu q\u00eb, kjo \u00ebsht\u00eb ajo q\u00eb b\u00ebjm\u00eb ne.<\/span><\/p>\n

Weiss:<\/span> Pra, Mossad-i \u00ebsht\u00eb ekuivalenti izraelit i CIA-s.<\/span><\/p>\n

Yossi Cohen<\/span>: Absolutisht. Po.<\/span><\/p>\n

Weiss:<\/span> Mir\u00eb.<\/span><\/p>\n

Yossi Cohen:<\/span> Dhe MI6, ata q\u00eb shfaqen n\u00eb filmat e James Bond-it. Un\u00eb jam pik\u00ebrisht atje.<\/span><\/p>\n

Rekrutimi dhe Trajnimi<\/b><\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n

Weiss:<\/span> N\u00eb mosh\u00ebn 22 vje\u00e7are, ti u rekrutove. Pse u rekrutove? \u00c7far\u00eb pan\u00eb tek ti?<\/span><\/p>\n

Yossi Cohen:<\/span> Epo, \u00ebsht\u00eb nj\u00eb pyetje e mir\u00eb. Un\u00eb isha…un\u00eb isha midis…midis\u00a0disa\u00a0kapitujve t\u00eb ndrysh\u00ebm n\u00eb jet\u00ebn time. Sapo kisha dh\u00ebn\u00eb dor\u00ebheqjen nga sh\u00ebrbimi im ushtarak n\u00eb ushtri. Luftova n\u00eb luft\u00ebn e par\u00eb n\u00eb Liban n\u00eb vitin ’82. Kjo ishte n\u00eb fund t\u00eb sh\u00ebrbimit tim, dhe n\u00eb t\u00eb v\u00ebrtet\u00eb ika n\u00eb nj\u00eb universitet\u00a0p\u00ebr s\u00eb mbari n\u00eb Lond\u00ebr. P\u00ebr t\u00eb p\u00ebrmir\u00ebsuar\u00a0anglishten time dhe p\u00ebr ta njohur bot\u00ebn\u00a0disi m\u00eb shum\u00eb. Kjo ishte hera e par\u00eb q\u00eb po vendosesha bashk\u00eb me gruan time, n\u00eb nj\u00eb vend t\u00eb huaj, dhe m\u00eb zbuluan atje.<\/span><\/p>\n

Mendoj se n\u00eb fillim ata nuk e din\u00eb me t\u00eb v\u00ebrtet\u00eb kush je ti. \u00ebsht\u00eb nj\u00ebsj sikur n\u00ebse na d\u00ebrgon CV-n\u00eb t\u00ebnde, ne do t\u00eb thoshim, mir\u00eb, duket interesante: mosha, kultura, prapavija, izraelizmi, sionizmi, vlerat q\u00eb k\u00ebrkojm\u00eb. Por m\u00eb pas, dua t\u00eb them, duhet t\u00eb kalosh n\u00ebp\u00ebr t\u00eb pakt\u00ebn nj\u00eb vit testimesh dhe provimesh.<\/span><\/p>\n

Weiss:<\/span> Pra, Mossad-i kur t\u00eb kontaktoi, s\u00eb pari, si t\u00eb kontaktoi?<\/span><\/p>\n

Yossi Cohen:<\/span> Ata thjesht m\u00eb telefonuan.<\/span><\/p>\n

Weiss:<\/span> Thjesht t\u00eb telefonuan. Po. Dhe than\u00eb: “Ne jemi Mossad-i”?<\/span><\/p>\n

Yossi Cohen<\/span>: Jo, natyrisht q\u00eb jo.<\/span><\/p>\n

Weiss:<\/span> \u00c7far\u00eb than\u00eb?<\/span><\/p>\n

Yossi Cohen<\/span>: Ministria e Mbrojtjes dhe\/ose Ministria e Pun\u00ebve t\u00eb Jashtme, apo ndonj\u00eb histori mbuluese (cover story). Ti nuk e di v\u00ebrtet kush jan\u00eb ata, por nga fakti q\u00eb ata nuk zbulojn\u00eb sakt\u00ebsisht cila \u00ebsht\u00eb natyra e pun\u00ebs s\u00eb pritur q\u00eb do t\u00eb b\u00ebsh, ti e kupton menj\u00ebher\u00eb. \u00cbsht\u00eb nj\u00eb lloj kuptimi i nd\u00ebrsjell\u00eb i heshtur q\u00eb un\u00eb e di kush je ti, ti e di kush jam un\u00eb, por nuk ia themi me z\u00eb t\u00eb lart\u00eb nj\u00ebri-tjetrit.<\/span><\/p>\n

Weiss:<\/span> At\u00ebher\u00eb, kur Mossad-i po shikonte, cilat ishin cil\u00ebsit\u00eb n\u00eb profilin t\u00ebnd: 22 vje\u00e7, fetar…<\/span><\/p>\n

Yossi Cohen<\/span>: 23 vje\u00e7, un\u00eb isha rekrutuar tashm\u00eb. Dua t\u00eb them, procedurat e rekrutimit filluan\u00a0m\u00eb her\u00ebt se kaq. Para k\u00ebsaj, mendoj se ka di\u00e7ka n\u00eb…un\u00eb do thosha karakterin t\u00ebnd, q\u00eb luan pjes\u00ebn m\u00eb t\u00eb madhe t\u00eb asaj q\u00eb ata k\u00ebrkojn\u00eb.<\/span><\/p>\n

Nuk \u00ebsht\u00eb thjesht se u v\u00ebrtetua se isha pjes\u00eb e nj\u00eb lloj lufte izraelite ku luftova. Un\u00eb u p\u00ebrshkrova atyre se \u00e7far\u00eb b\u00ebra n\u00eb luft\u00eb, dhe isha atje, leht\u00ebsisht i plagosur, duke luftuar kund\u00ebr terrorizmit n\u00eb Liban. Pra, kjo mund t\u00eb jet\u00eb pjes\u00eb e asaj q\u00eb po k\u00ebrkonin. \u00cbsht\u00eb si nj\u00eb provim i madh. Dua t\u00eb them, n\u00ebse shkon n\u00eb fush\u00ebbetej\u00eb dhe b\u00ebn at\u00eb q\u00eb duhet t\u00eb b\u00ebsh, jo duke u dridhur, jo duke u shmangur nga fush\u00ebbeteja, gj\u00ebra t\u00eb tilla. Njer\u00ebzit frik\u00ebsohen kur d\u00ebgjohen t\u00eb sht\u00ebnat e para. Ky nuk ishte rasti im.<\/span><\/p>\n

Dhe m\u00eb shum\u00eb se kaq, mendoj se ajo q\u00eb ata k\u00ebrkojn\u00eb \u00ebsht\u00eb kryesisht karakteri yt. Dua t\u00eb them, ti b\u00ebn k\u00ebt\u00eb lloj pune sepse ke k\u00ebt\u00eb karakter t\u00eb caktuar p\u00ebr t\u00eb, un\u00eb do thoja, p\u00ebr t\u00eb mb\u00ebshtetur nevojat operacionale. K\u00ebshtu q\u00eb\u00a0u rekrutova n\u00eb mosh\u00ebn 22 vje\u00e7. Meq\u00eb ra fjala, un\u00eb mbaj rekordin komb\u00ebtar p\u00ebr k\u00ebt\u00eb. Dua t\u00eb them, askush nuk \u00ebsht\u00eb rekrutuar para k\u00ebsaj.<\/span><\/p>\n

Weiss:<\/span> V\u00ebrtet?<\/span><\/p>\n

Yossi Cohen<\/span>: Po. Un\u00eb isha, jam ende, m\u00eb i riu i rekrutuar ndonj\u00ebher\u00eb n\u00eb k\u00ebt\u00eb linj\u00eb operacionale.<\/span><\/p>\n

\"\"<\/a><\/p>\n

Trajnimi n\u00eb Mossad<\/b><\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n

Weiss:<\/span> \u00c7far\u00eb \u00ebsht\u00eb trajnimi? Ne e dim\u00eb se si \u00ebsht\u00eb trajnimi n\u00ebse b\u00ebhesh nj\u00eb “Navy Seal” apo nj\u00eb “Marine” dhe ata kan\u00eb k\u00ebto marshimet\u00a0tep\u00ebr t\u00eb v\u00ebshtira dhe privim nga gjumi. Si \u00ebsht\u00eb trajnimi p\u00ebr t’u b\u00ebr\u00eb nj\u00eb spiun i Mossad-it?<\/span><\/p>\n

Yossi Cohen:<\/span> Trajnimi \u00ebsht\u00eb…shumica e asaj q\u00eb b\u00ebjm\u00eb \u00ebsht\u00eb se po p\u00ebrpiqemi t\u00eb m\u00ebsojm\u00eb mjete t\u00eb ndryshme q\u00eb nuk gjenden n\u00eb treg. Nuk mund t\u00eb shkosh n\u00eb universitete dhe t\u00eb studiosh at\u00eb q\u00eb ne po trajnojm\u00eb, p\u00ebr \u00e7far\u00eb po trajnojm\u00eb operativ\u00ebt tan\u00eb. Dhe kjo \u00ebsht\u00eb di\u00e7ka q\u00eb shkon deri n\u00eb m\u00ebnyr\u00ebn se si duhet t\u00eb luash historit\u00eb e tua mbuluese, gjuh\u00ebt q\u00eb do p\u00ebrdor\u00ebsh, historit\u00eb mbuluese q\u00eb i p\u00ebrshtaten karakterit t\u00ebnd. Dhe pastaj kjo \u00ebsht\u00eb vet\u00ebm nj\u00eb mjet. Dhe pastaj si e zbaton, si operon n\u00eb t\u00eb v\u00ebrtet\u00eb n\u00ebn k\u00ebt\u00eb histori mbuluese dhe p\u00ebr t\u00eb arritur at\u00eb q\u00eb ke…at\u00eb q\u00eb duhet arritur.<\/span><\/p>\n

Dhe ka shum\u00eb st\u00ebrvitje fizike gjithashtu. Nuk duhet t\u00eb jesh v\u00ebrtet nj\u00eb James Bond. Dua t\u00eb them, kjo nuk \u00ebsht\u00eb ajo q\u00eb b\u00ebjm\u00eb ne. Nuk duhet t\u00eb hidhesh mbi helikopter\u00eb dhe gj\u00ebra\u00a0si k\u00ebto, edhe pse ne e b\u00ebjm\u00eb. Por duhet t\u00eb p\u00ebrdor\u00ebsh…shum\u00ebllojshm\u00ebrin\u00eb e mjeteve, dhe duhet t\u00eb dish si t\u00eb mbrohesh, natyrisht, kur je n\u00eb nj\u00eb\u00a0gjendje ku nuk ka arm\u00eb n\u00eb dispozicion, ose duhet t\u00eb mbrohesh vet\u00eb, dhe mburoja absolute e vetme q\u00eb ke mes teje dhe zbulimit nga armiku, \u00ebsht\u00eb historia jote mbuluese. Dhe kjo \u00ebsht\u00eb di\u00e7ka shum\u00eb thell\u00ebsisht p\u00ebr t’u kuptuar.<\/span><\/p>\n

Trajnimi \u00ebsht\u00eb mjaft i v\u00ebshtir\u00eb. Jo shum\u00eb e kalojn\u00eb at\u00eb.<\/span><\/p>\n

Weiss:<\/span> A jeni n\u00eb nj\u00eb grup, apo trajnimi juaj \u00ebsht\u00eb i vet\u00ebm?<\/span><\/p>\n

Yossi Cohen:<\/span> Jo, ne jemi nj\u00eb grup. Nj\u00eb grup prej…un\u00eb do t\u00eb thoja 60 deri 70% e atyre q\u00eb kan\u00eb hyr\u00eb n\u00eb kurs do shkarkohen. Pra, ne arrijm\u00eb deri n\u00eb at\u00eb pik\u00eb sa n\u00eb nj\u00eb nga kurset, p\u00ebrfunduam me vet\u00ebm nj\u00eb operativ t\u00eb certifikuar. N\u00eb nj\u00eb tjet\u00ebr, p\u00ebrfunduam me dy operativ\u00eb t\u00eb certifikuar.<\/span><\/p>\n

Weiss:<\/span> Dhe ky \u00ebsht\u00eb nj\u00eb vit, apo dy vjet trajnimi?<\/span><\/p>\n

Yossi Cohen<\/span>: \u00cbsht\u00eb shum\u00eb. Nuk ia dalin shum\u00eb. Nuk mund ta b\u00ebjn\u00eb shum\u00eb. \u00cbsht\u00eb \u00e7\u00ebshtje karakteri, mentalitet shum\u00eb specifik, ose mjete q\u00eb duhet t\u00eb p\u00ebrdor\u00ebsh p\u00ebr t\u00eb mbijetuar k\u00ebt\u00eb lloj trajnimi, dhe pastaj p\u00ebr t\u00eb mbijetuar k\u00ebt\u00eb lloj pune n\u00eb terren. Dhe kalimi me sukses i trajnimit nuk do t\u00eb thot\u00eb q\u00eb ti do operosh me sukses. K\u00ebshtu q\u00eb, duhet t\u00eb verifikohet prap\u00eb e prap\u00eb, dhe do hidhesh n\u00eb terren, dhe kjo \u00ebsht\u00eb disi e v\u00ebshtir\u00eb.<\/span><\/p>\n

G<\/b><\/strong>j<\/b><\/strong>en<\/b><\/strong>iu<\/b><\/strong>\u00a0i Mossad-it<\/b><\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n

Weiss:<\/span> K\u00ebtu \u00ebsht\u00eb nj\u00eb nga gj\u00ebrat q\u00eb shkruan, megjithat\u00eb: “Kam nj\u00eb gjen t\u00eb Mossad-it n\u00eb trupin tim.\u00a0Puna dhe spiunazhi jan\u00eb n\u00eb gjakun tim.” \u00c7far\u00eb do t\u00eb thot\u00eb sakt\u00ebsisht kjo?<\/span><\/p>\n

Yossi Cohen:<\/span> Mua m\u00eb p\u00eblqen\u2026.<\/span><\/p>\n

Weiss:<\/span> \u00c7far\u00eb t\u00eb p\u00eblqen tek kjo?<\/span><\/p>\n

Yossi Cohen:<\/span> Mua m\u00eb p\u00eblqen…M\u00eb p\u00eblqen rreziku n\u00eb nj\u00ebfar\u00eb m\u00ebnyre. M\u00eb p\u00eblqen loja. M\u00eb p\u00eblqen loja e spiunazhit. M\u00eb p\u00eblqen arritja e atyre lloj objektivave t\u00eb pashpjegueshme, me t\u00eb cilat bota normale nuk merret. M\u00eb p\u00eblqen t\u00eb udh\u00ebtoj jasht\u00eb vendit n\u00ebn maskimin q\u00eb kam. M\u00eb p\u00eblqen t’u afrohem njer\u00ebzve q\u00eb mendojn\u00eb se un\u00eb jam ose nj\u00eb avokat kanadez, ose nj\u00eb autor britanik, ose nj\u00eb stilist francez, \u00e7far\u00ebdo qoft\u00eb, dhe t’u tregoj historit\u00eb e mia t\u00eb bukura, dhe ata e din\u00eb se un\u00eb jam ai q\u00eb kam paraqitur n\u00eb historin\u00eb time maskuese, dhe un\u00eb i di pothuajse \u00e7do holl\u00ebsi t\u00eb jet\u00ebs s\u00eb tyre. K\u00ebshtu q\u00eb, kjo lloj loje, kjo lloj pjese e spiunazhit, kjo lloj arene e rrezikshme ku jam, m\u00eb p\u00eblqen. Dhe kjo \u00ebsht\u00eb ajo q\u00eb un\u00eb, kur them se kam gjenin tek un\u00eb.<\/span><\/p>\n

Identiteti i rrem\u00eb<\/b><\/strong>: Biznesmeni <\/b><\/strong>a<\/b><\/strong>rgjentinas<\/b><\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n

Weiss:<\/span> Ti flet p\u00ebr ndjekjen e k\u00ebtij terroristi veteran t\u00eb Hezbollahut n\u00eb Liban, dhe ti e ndjek at\u00eb n\u00eb Amerik\u00ebn Latine, ku ai po p\u00ebrpiqej t\u00eb fillonte nj\u00eb jet\u00eb t\u00eb re\u00a0prej\u00a0biznesmeni. Dhe historia jote\u00a0maskuese, k\u00ebshtu e p\u00ebrshkruan ti: ishe nj\u00eb biznesmen argjentinas i hidhur dhe cinik, q\u00eb k\u00ebrkonte partner\u00eb p\u00ebr t\u00eb b\u00ebr\u00eb para dhe q\u00eb nuk b\u00ebjn\u00eb shum\u00eb pyetje. M\u00eb trego p\u00ebr at\u00eb personazh. Si e nd\u00ebrtove besueshm\u00ebrin\u00eb e t\u00eb qenit nj\u00eb biznesmen argjentinas? A je shum\u00eb i mir\u00eb me thekset? Pse ai personazh? A i kupton personazhet vet\u00eb? A ke mb\u00ebshtetjen e nj\u00eb agjenti q\u00eb po t\u00eb drejton? Na shpjego pak p\u00ebr k\u00ebt\u00eb.<\/span><\/p>\n

Yossi Cohen:<\/span> Kjo \u00ebsht\u00eb pjes\u00eb e mjetit t\u00eb vet\u00ebm q\u00eb duhet t\u00eb p\u00ebrdor\u00ebsh, apo jo? Si\u00e7 thash\u00eb, kjo \u00ebsht\u00eb e vetmja gj\u00eb q\u00eb t\u00eb fut n\u00eb fush\u00ebbetej\u00eb. \u00cbsht\u00eb si uniforma q\u00eb vesh.<\/span><\/p>\n

Pra, si nd\u00ebrton nj\u00eb histori\u00a0maskuese? Nuk do futem n\u00eb shum\u00eb holl\u00ebsi, por\u00a0holl\u00ebsit\u00eb e pakta q\u00eb mund t\u00eb zbulojm\u00eb sot jan\u00eb se ti ke objektivin ose ke misionin. Duhet t\u00eb nd\u00ebrtosh historin\u00eb t\u00ebnde maskuese q\u00eb t’i p\u00ebrshtatet misionit.<\/span><\/p>\n

Pra, le t\u00eb themi se un\u00eb do jem pak cinik k\u00ebtu, por le t\u00eb themi se objektivi \u00ebsht\u00eb nj\u00eb operativ i r\u00ebnd\u00ebsish\u00ebm, m\u00eb fal, terrorist, dhe le t\u00eb themi se ai po drejton nj\u00eb lloj linje t\u00eb re biznesi, por \u00ebsht\u00eb i lidhur me Hezbollahun. Ai ishte nj\u00eb figur\u00eb shum\u00eb e lart\u00eb n\u00eb Hezbollah. K\u00ebt\u00eb donim ne. Le t\u00eb themi q\u00eb un\u00eb do t’i them se st\u00ebrvis balerin\u00ebt\u00a0n\u00eb\u00a0Teatrin e Operas dhe\u00a0Baletit. A do funksiononte kjo? Jo, nuk mendoj\u00a0se do funksiononte.<\/span><\/p>\n

Pra, \u00e7far\u00eb b\u00ebra un\u00eb? Un\u00eb e di \u00e7far\u00eb po b\u00ebn ai atje. Dhe ne kishim m\u00ebsuar shum\u00eb rreth tij. Avantazhi i vet\u00ebm q\u00eb kemi mbi “objektet” \u00ebsht\u00eb se ne e dim\u00eb dosjen e tyre. Ne jetojm\u00eb me ta, pa e ditur ata q\u00eb jetojm\u00eb me ta. Ne e dim\u00eb prapavij\u00ebn e tij. Dua t\u00eb them, ne mbledhim rreth tij\u00a0informacione\u00a0para se t’i afrohemi. Ne e dim\u00eb se po udh\u00ebton. Ne e dim\u00eb \u00e7far\u00eb mendon. Ne e dim\u00eb \u00e7far\u00eb i p\u00eblqen. Ne i dim\u00eb zakonet e tij. Ne i dim\u00eb t\u00eb metat dhe t\u00eb mirat e tij n\u00eb jet\u00eb. Pikat negative, pikat e err\u00ebta q\u00eb ai d\u00ebshiron t’i fsheh\u00eb. I dim\u00eb t\u00eb gjitha k\u00ebto, apo jo? P\u00ebr shkak t\u00eb fuqis\u00eb\u00a0q\u00eb kemi\u00a0p\u00ebr t\u00eb mbledhur\u00a0informacione.<\/span><\/p>\n

Pra, nj\u00eb histori maskuese\u00a0duhet t\u00eb p\u00ebrmbush\u00eb pritshm\u00ebrit\u00eb e tij. N\u00ebse vjen e i thua, un\u00eb jam nj\u00eb trajner balerin\u00ebsh, ai do thot\u00eb, mirupafshim. Por n\u00ebse i thua: “Un\u00eb jam duke k\u00ebrkuar…jam nj\u00eb biznesmen. Jam argjentinas. K\u00ebnaq\u00ebsi q\u00eb t\u00eb takova, dhe po k\u00ebrkoj disa kufij t\u00eb rinj p\u00ebr t\u00eb zhvilluar biznesin tim t\u00eb ri t\u00eb ardhsh\u00ebm.” Dhe un\u00eb e konsideroj t\u00eb shkoj n\u00eb Lindjen e Mesme, por nuk jam i sigurt. “Perfekte. Oh, v\u00ebrtet? M\u00eb trego m\u00eb shum\u00eb p\u00ebr k\u00ebt\u00eb.” K\u00ebshtu q\u00eb ti krijon nj\u00eb lloj interesi\u00a0te objektivi. P\u00ebr t\u00eb kaluar pengesat e tij, ose p\u00ebr t\u00eb kaluar muret e tij t\u00eb mbrojtjes. P\u00ebr t\u00eb hyr\u00eb n\u00eb trurin e tij fillimisht, dhe pastaj n\u00eb zemr\u00ebn dhe shpirtin e tij, sepse n\u00eb fund t\u00eb dit\u00ebs, ti d\u00ebshiron ta b\u00ebsh at\u00eb mikun t\u00ebnd m\u00eb t\u00eb mir\u00eb. Por ai nuk e di n\u00eb t\u00eb v\u00ebrtet\u00eb kush je ti.<\/span><\/p>\n

\"\"<\/a><\/p>\n

Vrasja e <\/b><\/strong>s<\/b><\/strong>hkenc\u00ebtarit <\/b><\/strong>b<\/b><\/strong>\u00ebrthamor<\/b><\/strong>\u00a0iranian<\/b><\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n

Weiss:<\/span> Nj\u00eb nga gj\u00ebrat q\u00eb shkruan n\u00eb lib\u00ebr q\u00eb m\u00eb shokoi, \u00ebsht\u00eb se ju mbik\u00ebqyr\u00ebt vrasjen e shkenc\u00ebtarit kryesor b\u00ebrthamor t\u00eb Iranit n\u00eb vitin 2020. Dhe p\u00ebr njer\u00ebzit q\u00eb nuk jan\u00eb t\u00eb njohur me k\u00ebt\u00eb operacion, ju e b\u00ebt\u00eb k\u00ebt\u00eb duke p\u00ebrdorur nj\u00eb mitraloz t\u00eb fuqizuar nga Inteligjenca Artificiale q\u00eb operohej n\u00eb larg\u00ebsi nga jasht\u00eb Iranit. Dhe ky v\u00ebrtet duket si nj\u00eb triller i Hollywood-it. Ju n\u00eb thelb p\u00ebrshkruani se si arma u kontrabandua n\u00eb vend, n\u00eb Iran, cop\u00eb-cop\u00eb, u rimontua n\u00eb nj\u00eb kamion\u00e7in\u00eb, dhe m\u00eb pas u p\u00ebrdor n\u00eb larg\u00ebsi p\u00ebrmes nj\u00eb qendre sekrete komandimi. Si ju erdhi kjo ide?<\/span><\/p>\n

Yossi Cohen<\/span>:<\/span> Epo, duhet t\u00eb t\u00eb vij\u00eb nj\u00eb ide e mir\u00eb kur duhet t\u00eb dish se ka di\u00e7ka p\u00ebr t\u00eb b\u00ebr\u00eb brenda Iranit ose n\u00eb vende t\u00eb tjera. Ky \u00ebsht\u00eb objektivi. Kjo arritje e objektivit duhet t\u00eb b\u00ebhet n\u00eb nj\u00eb m\u00ebnyr\u00eb t\u00eb caktuar q\u00eb nuk do rrezikoj\u00eb fizikisht operativ\u00ebt tan\u00eb, aq sa mundemi.<\/span><\/p>\n

Ndonj\u00ebher\u00eb jemi shum\u00eb, shum\u00eb af\u00ebr objektivit, shum\u00eb af\u00ebr objektivit. Dua t\u00eb them, ka ndodhur sipas raporteve t\u00eb huaja, shum\u00eb her\u00eb q\u00eb ke operativ\u00eb izraelit\u00eb n\u00eb vet\u00eb objektivin, apo jo? Si n\u00eb nj\u00eb hotel\u00a0n\u00eb Dubai, sipas raporteve zyrtare mbi\u00a0\u00e7far\u00ebdo lajmesh t\u00eb rreme, ose n\u00eb Aman. Kur t\u00eb tjer\u00ebt u p\u00ebrpoq\u00ebn dhe d\u00ebshtuan, dua t\u00eb them, p\u00ebr t\u00eb hequr qafe nj\u00eb operativ t\u00eb Hamasit, ose nj\u00eb terrorist t\u00eb Hamasit, m\u00eb fal.<\/span><\/p>\n

Dhe ndonj\u00ebher\u00eb po p\u00ebrpiqesh p\u00ebr shkak t\u00eb kompleksitetit n\u00eb territor, po p\u00ebrpiqesh ta b\u00ebsh at\u00eb, po p\u00ebrpiqesh t\u00eb krijosh sa m\u00eb shum\u00eb larg\u00ebsi q\u00eb t\u00eb mundesh nga objektivi. Jo p\u00ebr shkak t\u00eb objektivit, por p\u00ebr shkak t\u00eb siguris\u00eb s\u00eb tij. Dhe n\u00eb at\u00eb rast, ai shoq\u00ebrohej nga 15 truproja dhe nj\u00eb kolon\u00eb prej kat\u00ebr deri n\u00eb gjasht\u00eb makinash, \u00e7do dit\u00eb.<\/span><\/p>\n

Dhe ne kemi jetuar me t\u00eb. Ne e njohim objektivin shum\u00eb mir\u00eb. Ne e njihnim at\u00eb. Kjo ishte hera e dyt\u00eb q\u00eb un\u00eb…<\/span><\/p>\n

Weiss:<\/span> Kur thua q\u00eb keni jetuar me t\u00eb, do t\u00eb thot\u00eb q\u00eb disa nga truprojat rreth tij jan\u00eb t\u00eb Mossad-it?<\/span><\/p>\n

Yossi Cohen:<\/span> Ndoshta.<\/span><\/p>\n

Weiss<\/span>: Mir\u00eb.<\/span><\/p>\n

Yossi Cohen<\/span>:<\/span> Ndoshta. N\u00eb m\u00ebnyr\u00eb q\u00eb t\u00eb b\u00ebsh nj\u00eb operacion t\u00eb mir\u00eb, duhet t\u00eb dep\u00ebrtosh p\u00ebrmes t\u00eb gjitha vrimave dhe mureve. Ti v\u00ebrtet duhet t\u00eb jesh sa m\u00eb af\u00ebr q\u00eb t\u00eb mundesh me vet\u00eb objektivin. Q\u00eb do t\u00eb thot\u00eb, n\u00ebse duhet t\u00eb di se \u00e7far\u00eb po mendon ose \u00e7far\u00eb po planifikon, ka nj\u00eb m\u00ebnyr\u00eb p\u00ebr ta ditur k\u00ebt\u00eb. Ka shum\u00eb m\u00ebnyra p\u00ebr ta ditur k\u00ebt\u00eb.<\/span><\/p>\n

Mund t\u00eb rekrutoj disa…mund ta rekrutoj at\u00eb (dhe ka ndodhur gjithashtu).<\/span><\/p>\n

Mund t\u00eb rekrutoj rrethin e tij. (ndodh gjithashtu).<\/span><\/p>\n

Mund t\u00eb rekrutoj shefin e tij t\u00eb stafit, ose gruan e shefit t\u00eb tij t\u00eb stafit. (ndodh gjithashtu).<\/span><\/p>\n

Mund t\u00eb futem n\u00eb qarqet e tij t\u00eb brendshme duke operuar rreth tij pa e ditur ai se un\u00eb operoj rreth tij.<\/span><\/p>\n

Dhe ka mjete t\u00eb tjera elektronike q\u00eb mund t\u00eb bp\u00ebrdor\u00ebsh, dua t\u00eb them\u00a0brigad\u00ebn 8200 dhe t\u00eb tjera, si \u00e7far\u00ebdo hakerimi kibernetik dhe gj\u00ebra t\u00eb tilla q\u00eb duhet t\u00eb p\u00ebrdor\u00ebsh. Dua t\u00eb them, n\u00eb m\u00ebnyr\u00eb q\u00eb t\u00eb m\u00ebsosh se \u00e7far\u00eb po planifikon, kush \u00ebsht\u00eb ai.<\/span><\/p>\n

Kur duhet t\u00eb operosh, duhet t\u00eb afrohesh shum\u00eb af\u00ebr me\u00a0objektivin, duke ditur sakt\u00ebsisht cilat jan\u00eb gj\u00ebrat q\u00eb po b\u00ebn n\u00eb baza ditore. Kur zgjohet? Si duket dhoma e tij e gjumit? Makina e tij, zakonet e tij. \u00c7far\u00eb b\u00ebn n\u00eb or\u00ebn 7:00 t\u00eb m\u00ebngjesit, 8:00 t\u00eb m\u00ebngjesit? 8:08, 8:09… pa nj\u00eb \u00e7erek 9:00. Dua t\u00eb them, duhet ta dish k\u00ebt\u00eb minut\u00eb pas minute, \u00e7do dit\u00eb.<\/span><\/p>\n

Dhe ne kemi zbuluar se ai po b\u00ebn at\u00eb q\u00eb po b\u00ebn, sepse ne duhet t\u00eb\u2026ne kemi qen\u00eb shum\u00eb af\u00ebr me t\u00eb. Ne udh\u00ebtuam me t\u00eb. Ne kemi qen\u00eb me t\u00eb. Ne kemi marr\u00eb frym\u00eb me t\u00eb. Ne e kemi d\u00ebgjuar at\u00eb. T\u00eb gjitha k\u00ebto mjete q\u00eb duhet t\u00eb p\u00ebrdorim, u p\u00ebrdor\u00ebn p\u00ebrfundimisht. Dhe ne arrit\u00ebm n\u00eb p\u00ebrfundimin se t\u00eb qenit af\u00ebr k\u00ebsaj kolone t\u00eb tij do t\u00eb ishte shum\u00eb e rrezikshme p\u00ebr operativ\u00ebt, dhe dera e arratisjes, dera e fundit q\u00eb do t’i mbante ata t\u00eb sigurt, nuk mund t\u00eb sigurohej n\u00eb at\u00eb rast. Pra, na u desh t\u00eb shpiknim di\u00e7ka ndryshe.<\/span><\/p>\n

Tani, p\u00ebrdorimi i AI-s\u00eb \u00ebsht\u00eb di\u00e7ka shum\u00eb moderne. \u00ebsht\u00eb n\u00eb kulmin e saj prej\u00a0disa vitesh\u00a0tani. Dhe kjo \u00ebsht\u00eb ajo q\u00eb b\u00ebm\u00eb ne. Duke u p\u00ebrpjekur t\u00eb sigurohemi q\u00eb t\u00eb arrijm\u00eb n\u00eb t\u00eb nj\u00ebjtin rezultat me rrezikun m\u00eb t\u00eb ul\u00ebt t\u00eb mundsh\u00ebm. Dhe kjo \u00ebsht\u00eb ajo q\u00eb b\u00ebm\u00eb. Po. E di q\u00eb ting\u00ebllon si fantashkenc\u00eb, por nuk \u00ebsht\u00eb. <\/span><\/p>\n

Isha atje n\u00eb dhom\u00ebn e komand\u00ebs dhe kontrollit. Gjith\u00eb nat\u00ebn\u00a0e\u00a0gjith\u00eb dit\u00ebn para operacionit dhe e pash\u00eb t\u00eb ndodhte, dhe ti e sheh at\u00eb drejtp\u00ebrdrejt. \u00ebsht\u00eb si…\u00ebsht\u00eb v\u00ebrtet, si nj\u00eb film. Por \u00ebsht\u00eb nj\u00eb mision i v\u00ebshtir\u00eb p\u00ebr t’u arritur. Dhe m\u00eb shum\u00eb se kaq, nuk ka shum\u00eb g\u00ebzim pas tij, apo jo? Dua t\u00eb them, ti je i lumtur q\u00eb p\u00ebrs\u00ebri, po i sh\u00ebrben vendit, q\u00eb po b\u00ebn gj\u00ebrat q\u00eb b\u00ebn, e di, p\u00ebr t’i sh\u00ebrbyer flamurit blu dhe t\u00eb bardh\u00eb, dhe p\u00ebr t’u siguruar q\u00eb shteti i Izraelit do ekzistoj\u00eb. Dhe ky burr\u00eb ishte n\u00eb krye t\u00eb ekipit \u00a0t\u00eb krijimit t\u00eb nj\u00eb bombe b\u00ebrthamore p\u00ebr Shtetin Islamik, dhe ne nuk mund ta lejonim k\u00ebt\u00eb.<\/span><\/p>\n

Operacioni <\/b><\/strong>i<\/b><\/strong>\u00a0<\/b><\/strong>biperave <\/b><\/strong>t\u00eb Hezbollahut<\/b><\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n

Weiss:<\/span> Nj\u00eb nga operacionet m\u00eb befasuese t\u00eb inteligjenc\u00ebs izraelite ishte operacioni\u00a0me\u00a0bipera t\u00eb Hezbollahut. Dhe n\u00eb shum\u00eb nga raportet q\u00eb kan\u00eb dal\u00eb rreth k\u00ebsaj, mendoj se gj\u00ebja m\u00eb e \u00e7mendur rreth tij \u00ebsht\u00eb sa koh\u00eb u desh p\u00ebr ta kryer. 20 vjet.<\/span><\/p>\n

Yossi Cohen:<\/span> 20 vjet. Po.<\/span><\/p>\n

Weiss:<\/span> Tani, Izraeli, dhe kjo \u00ebsht\u00eb di\u00e7ka p\u00ebr t\u00eb cil\u00ebn dua t\u00eb flas m\u00eb von\u00eb, mendoj se me t\u00eb drejt\u00eb kritikohet q\u00eb nuk ka ndonj\u00eb strategji afatgjat\u00eb, q\u00eb shkon me mendime afatshkurtra, luft\u00eb pas lufte dhe disi duke anashkaluar pyetjet ekzistenciale, ndoshta si nj\u00eb shtet palestinez. Por n\u00eb k\u00ebt\u00eb rast, Mossad-i dukej se kishte nj\u00eb strategji afatgjat\u00eb q\u00eb t\u00eb l\u00eb pa fjal\u00eb. Na tregoni pak rreth k\u00ebsaj, n\u00ebse mund t\u00eb shkoni prapa perdes, si e keni realizuar k\u00ebt\u00eb.<\/span><\/p>\n

Yossi Cohen:<\/span> Versioni i shkurt\u00ebr \u00ebsht\u00eb se kur e kuptuam n\u00eb fillim t\u00eb vitit 2002, le t\u00eb themi 2002-2004, se kemi armiq t\u00eb m\u00ebdhenj rreth nesh, jo vet\u00ebm n\u00eb Liban, por kishim ushtrin\u00eb siriane dhe pastaj kishim disa v\u00ebshtir\u00ebsi dhe sfida n\u00eb Irak dhe kryesisht Iran. Un\u00eb u em\u00ebrova nga Meir Dagan p\u00ebr t\u00eb drejtuar n\u00ebn-divizionin e Operacioneve Speciale, “special ops” si\u00e7 i quajm\u00eb ne.<\/span><\/p>\n

Ky divizion duhet t\u00eb shpik\u00eb lloje t\u00eb ndryshme metodash p\u00ebr t\u00eb goditur armiqt\u00eb, por duke p\u00ebrdorur teknologjit\u00eb e p\u00ebrmir\u00ebsuara ose t\u00eb nivelit t\u00eb lart\u00eb izraelite p\u00ebr t’u siguruar q\u00eb marrim at\u00eb q\u00eb na nevojitet.<\/span><\/p>\n

Dhe \u00e7far\u00eb na nevojitet? Ka tre sektor\u00eb n\u00eb inteligjenc\u00eb q\u00eb t\u00eb duhen:<\/span><\/p>\n

Duhet t\u00eb dish. \u00cbsht\u00eb shikimi, v\u00ebzhgimi, d\u00ebgjimi, hetimi, gj\u00ebra t\u00eb tilla.<\/span><\/p>\n

Duhet t\u00eb dish vendndodhjet. Duhet t\u00eb dish ku jan\u00eb, djemt\u00eb e k\u00ebqij, cilat jan\u00eb dhomat e komand\u00ebs q\u00eb po p\u00ebrdorin, bunker\u00ebt ku shkojn\u00eb, makinat q\u00eb po p\u00ebrdorin, etj.<\/span><\/p>\n

Dhe ndonj\u00ebher\u00eb duhet ta godas\u00ebsh k\u00ebt\u00eb, ose me shp\u00ebrthime, ose shtyp nj\u00eb buton dhe elementi do t\u00eb pushoj\u00eb s\u00eb operuari.<\/span><\/p>\n

K\u00ebto jan\u00eb tre elemente q\u00eb u zhvilluan nga un\u00eb si kreu i divizionit p\u00ebr her\u00eb t\u00eb par\u00eb n\u00eb historin\u00eb e Mossad-it. Dhe gj\u00ebja q\u00eb e dini tani jan\u00eb\u00a0biperat dhe radio-lidhjet n\u00eb Hezbollah.<\/span><\/p>\n

Metoda e t\u00eb qenit pjes\u00eb e zinxhirit t\u00eb furnizimit t\u00eb k\u00ebsaj organizate filloi 20 vjet m\u00eb par\u00eb ose m\u00eb shum\u00eb se 20 vjet m\u00eb par\u00eb. Pse? Sepse dua t\u00eb di \u00e7far\u00eb po thon\u00eb. Dua t\u00eb di \u00e7far\u00eb po mendon\u00eb. Un\u00eb do\u00a0dep\u00ebrtoj n\u00eb zyrat tuaja, n\u00eb \u00e7far\u00ebdo entiteti, n\u00eb entitetet tuaja, n\u00eb \u00e7far\u00ebdo dhom\u00eb komandimi dhe kontrolli tuaj. T\u00eb gjitha k\u00ebto elemente q\u00eb komandojn\u00eb tuajat. Do doja t\u00eb shkoja dhe t\u00eb isha pjes\u00eb e asaj q\u00eb b\u00ebni\u00a0brenda. Un\u00eb dua t\u00eb shoh \u00e7far\u00eb b\u00ebni. Dua t\u00eb d\u00ebgjoj \u00e7far\u00eb thoni. Dua t\u00eb marr at\u00eb q\u00eb keni, n\u00eb inteligjenc\u00eb.<\/span><\/p>\n

P\u00ebr ta b\u00ebr\u00eb k\u00ebt\u00eb, mund t\u00eb rekrutosh njer\u00ebz. Por ne kuptuam se ka nj\u00eb metod\u00eb tjet\u00ebr q\u00eb duhet p\u00ebrdorur: Un\u00eb mund t’ju shes disa gj\u00ebra. Un\u00eb mund t’ju shes elemente t\u00eb ndryshme, dhe un\u00eb duhet t\u00eb jem\u00a0aty \u00a0p\u00ebr t’jua\u00a0shitur k\u00ebto elemente, pjes\u00eb e zinxhirit tuaj t\u00eb furnizimit.<\/span><\/p>\n

Q\u00eb do t\u00eb thot\u00eb, un\u00eb duhet t\u00eb di \u00e7far\u00eb po k\u00ebrkon ti, dhe m\u00eb pas duhet t\u00eb jem pjes\u00eb e k\u00ebsaj. Por si mund t\u00eb jem pjes\u00eb e k\u00ebsaj n\u00ebse nuk jam p\u00ebrs\u00ebri nj\u00eb kompani e fsheht\u00eb? Kush jam un\u00eb? Pse po e ofroj k\u00ebt\u00eb? Ti je nj\u00eb organizat\u00eb terroriste. Si e di un\u00eb q\u00eb po k\u00ebrkon p\u00ebr k\u00ebt\u00eb lloj gj\u00ebje? Kujt po ia shes k\u00ebt\u00eb? A mund t’ia shes\u00ebsh at\u00eb gj\u00eb? Si mund t\u00eb mos ma shes\u00ebsh at\u00eb gj\u00eb? Kush je ti? Kompania q\u00eb p\u00ebrfaq\u00ebson, e k\u00ebshtu me radh\u00eb. T\u00eb gjitha k\u00ebto sfida u mbuluan dhe u shpik\u00ebn p\u00ebrfundimisht n\u00eb vitet 2002 deri n\u00eb 2006.<\/span><\/p>\n

Q\u00eb nga viti 2006, Weiss, ne e kemi p\u00ebrdorur tashm\u00eb\u00a0k\u00ebt\u00eb gj\u00eb dhe ajo ishte Lufta e Dyt\u00eb e Libanit. Pra\u00a0kund\u00ebr Hezbollahut. Nj\u00eb pjes\u00eb e elementeve q\u00eb kemi p\u00ebrdorur n\u00eb at\u00eb luft\u00eb ishin pajisje t\u00eb manipuluara q\u00eb na ndihmuan t\u00eb b\u00ebnim pik\u00ebrisht at\u00eb: t\u00eb dinim, t\u00eb lokalizonim dhe t\u00eb nd\u00ebrprisnim. Dhe q\u00eb at\u00ebher\u00eb deri sot\u00a0– shpresoj deri sot\u00a0– ne jemi ende duke p\u00ebrdorur t\u00eb nj\u00ebjt\u00ebn metod\u00eb. \u00cbsht\u00eb e v\u00ebshtir\u00eb p\u00ebr t’u b\u00ebr\u00eb, por ia vlen ta b\u00ebsh.<\/span><\/p>\n

Pra, biperat jan\u00eb sakt\u00ebsisht t\u00eb nj\u00ebjtat. Ne m\u00ebsuam q\u00eb Hezbollahu po k\u00ebrkonte pajisje biperash. Ata (Mossad) than\u00eb, “Pse nuk i furnizojm\u00eb ne?” Tha, “Kush jeni ju?” Dhe na u desh ta\u00a0mbulonim me nj\u00eb histori\u00a0maskuese\u00a0shum\u00eb, shum\u00eb, shum\u00eb t\u00eb trash\u00eb, histori maskuese shum\u00eb t\u00eb trasha, q\u00eb do thoshin, “Ne mund ta b\u00ebjm\u00eb k\u00ebt\u00eb”, dhe “K\u00ebtu jan\u00eb\u00a0biperat q\u00eb po k\u00ebrkoni.”<\/span><\/p>\n

Dhe meq\u00eb ra fjala, nuk \u00ebsht\u00eb i r\u00ebnd\u00ebsish\u00ebm vet\u00ebm elementi q\u00eb po shet. Elementi q\u00eb po shet ka k\u00ebto tre aft\u00ebsi: t\u00eb dij\u00eb, t\u00eb lokalizoj\u00eb dhe t\u00eb nd\u00ebrpres\u00eb me k\u00ebt\u00eb lloj eksplozivi. Por duhet t\u00eb jet\u00eb sakt\u00ebsisht i nj\u00ebjt\u00eb me origjinalin q\u00eb po prodhon kompania origjinale, mir\u00eb? E nj\u00ebjta madh\u00ebsi, e nj\u00ebjta pesh\u00eb, e nj\u00ebjta sjellje elektronike, apo jo? Dhe ne e dim\u00eb se \u00e7do gj\u00eb q\u00eb futet brenda k\u00ebtyre trupave do testohet dhe do pritet n\u00eb copa p\u00ebr t’u siguruar q\u00eb asgj\u00eb e keqe nuk futet brenda. Pra, si e maskon k\u00ebt\u00eb prap\u00eb e prap\u00eb e prap\u00eb?<\/span><\/p>\n

Weiss:<\/span> Pra, spiunazhi ose spiunimi, por a ka nj\u00eb zyr\u00eb teknologjike t\u00eb Mossad-it? Sepse ti nuk je ai q\u00eb e shpik… apo jo?<\/span><\/p>\n

Yossi Cohen:<\/span> Natyrisht. Dua t\u00eb them, nj\u00ebsia m\u00eb e madhe e Mossad-it \u00ebsht\u00eb nj\u00ebsia teknologjike, apo jo? Mij\u00ebra njer\u00ebz punojn\u00eb. Si quhet ai n\u00eb MI6? \u00cbsht\u00eb Q, apo jo? Dua t\u00eb them, pra divizioni Q \u00ebsht\u00eb i madh.<\/span><\/p>\n

\"\"<\/a><\/p>\n

D\u00ebshtimi i 7 Tetorit<\/b><\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n

Weiss:<\/span> Mendoj se gj\u00ebja q\u00eb \u00ebsht\u00eb e v\u00ebshtir\u00eb, mendoj, p\u00ebr mua dhe ndoshta p\u00ebr shum\u00eb njer\u00ebz t\u00eb tjer\u00eb, p\u00ebr ta p\u00ebrputhur, \u00ebsht\u00eb se i nj\u00ebjti vend q\u00eb ishte n\u00eb gjendje t\u00eb kryente nj\u00eb operacion t\u00eb programuar para 20 vitesh\u00a0q\u00eb k\u00ebrkonte planifikime t\u00eb ndryshme\u00a0– dua t\u00eb them, nuk mund ta p\u00ebrfytyroj sasin\u00eb e planifikimit dhe mendimit afatgjat\u00eb q\u00eb duhej, dhe mendimin strategjik. i nj\u00ebjti vend, n\u00eb 7 Tetor, u sulmua nga terrorist\u00eb me kamion\u00eb, me moto\u00e7ikleta dhe parashuta\u00a0duke mos p\u00ebrdorur aspak teknologji. Ma\u00a0sqaron dot\u00a0k\u00ebt\u00eb.<\/span><\/p>\n

Yossi Cohen:<\/span> Nuk mundem. Por do p\u00ebrpiqem…do p\u00ebrpiqem t\u00eb shpreh mendimet e mia p\u00ebr k\u00ebt\u00eb, apo jo? S\u00eb pari, mendoj se ishte nj\u00eb d\u00ebshtim i madh.<\/span><\/p>\n

Weiss:<\/span> Por un\u00eb mendoj se ajo q\u00eb po pyes prej teje \u00ebsht\u00eb, a \u00ebsht\u00eb nj\u00eb d\u00ebshtim i imagjinat\u00ebs q\u00eb Hamasi do b\u00ebnte di\u00e7ka t\u00eb till\u00eb? A \u00ebsht\u00eb nj\u00eb d\u00ebshtim i lidershipit? A \u00ebsht\u00eb e gjitha sa u tha? Kur e imagjinoj, duke pasur parasysh historin\u00eb t\u00ebnde profesionale, ti e shikon di\u00e7ka q\u00eb d\u00ebshton dhe mund ta dallosh shpejt pse ka d\u00ebshtuar nj\u00eb operacion i till\u00eb. Pra, pse?<\/span><\/p>\n

Yossi Cohen:<\/span> Epo, m\u00eb vjen shum\u00eb keq, dua t\u00eb them, p\u00ebr p\u00ebrshkrimet q\u00eb do t\u00eb t\u00eb jap, por kjo \u00ebsht\u00eb e v\u00ebrteta. Rripi i Gaz\u00ebs ishte p\u00ebrfundimisht af\u00ebr braktisjes nga sh\u00ebrbimet e siguris\u00eb izraelite kur ndodhi shk\u00ebputja me kryeministrin Ariel Sharon. P\u00ebrfundimisht u shk\u00ebput nga Rripi i Gaz\u00ebs. Dua t\u00eb them, ne humb\u00ebm kontrollin aktual fizik q\u00eb kishim n\u00eb Gaza, si\u00e7 kishim n\u00eb Judea dhe Samaria, Bregun Per\u00ebndimor.<\/span><\/p>\n

Weiss:<\/span> Sa p\u00ebr t\u00eb ndihmuar d\u00ebgjuesit q\u00eb nuk jan\u00eb t\u00eb njohur me k\u00ebt\u00eb. N\u00eb \u00e7far\u00eb viti ishte t\u00ebrheqja nga Gaza?<\/span><\/p>\n

Yossi Cohen:<\/span> 2006.<\/span><\/p>\n

Weiss:<\/span> Pra, n\u00eb vitin 2006, qeveria izraelite mori nj\u00eb vendim p\u00ebr t\u00eb t\u00ebrhequr \u00e7do hebre, \u00e7do hebre izraelit q\u00eb jetonte n\u00eb Rripin e Gaz\u00ebs, t\u00eb gjith\u00eb ata, nga kudo. Dhe ideja ishte se- dhe dua t\u00eb sigurohem q\u00eb po e p\u00ebrshkruaj sakt\u00eb\u00a0– mendimi strategjik prapa tij ishte se ne do t\u00ebrhiqemi disi. Ata do ken\u00eb vendin e tyre, ne do kemi tonin, dhe n\u00eb fund t\u00eb fundit ishte pjes\u00eb e mend\u00ebsis\u00eb, mendoj, tok\u00eb p\u00ebr paqe, ideja se n\u00ebse jep tok\u00ebn, ndoshta mund t\u00eb marr\u00ebsh pak paqe.<\/span><\/p>\n

Yossi Cohen<\/span>: Weiss, ti mund ta p\u00ebrshkruash at\u00eb si pjes\u00eb e Marr\u00ebveshjeve t\u00eb Oslos, nj\u00eb kapitull tjet\u00ebr. Kishim Oslon 1, Oslon 2. Kjo ishte Gaza dhe Jericho s\u00eb pari, dua t\u00eb them, n\u00ebse e kujton k\u00ebt\u00eb, q\u00eb u b\u00eb nga Shimon Peres dhe Rabin si kryeminist\u00ebr. Dhe pastaj kishim Marr\u00ebveshjen e Hebronit q\u00eb e b\u00ebri Bibi Netanyahu dhe u dha atyre k\u00ebt\u00eb territor, dhe pastaj kishim Rripin e Gaz\u00ebs, dua t\u00eb them, pjes\u00ebrisht. Me nj\u00eb sasi shum\u00eb t\u00eb vog\u00ebl t\u00eb Izraelit\u00ebve, 8,000 gjithsej. 2 milion\u00eb banor\u00eb t\u00eb Gaz\u00ebs, 8,000 izraelit\u00eb. Por k\u00ebta 8,000 ishin n\u00eb rrezik shum\u00eb, shum\u00eb, shum\u00eb t\u00eb madh.<\/span><\/p>\n

Weiss:<\/span> Dhe nj\u00eb sasi e madhe e burimeve ushtarake izraelite shkonin p\u00ebr t’i mbrojtur ata.<\/span><\/p>\n

Yossi Cohen:<\/span> Dhe kjo ishte ndoshta…<\/span><\/p>\n

Weiss:<\/span> Dhe a do thoshe se shumica e izraelit\u00ebve e mb\u00ebshtet\u00ebn planin e t\u00ebrheqjes?<\/span><\/p>\n

Yossi Cohen<\/span>: Jo n\u00eb t\u00eb v\u00ebrtet\u00eb. Qeveria e mb\u00ebshteti at\u00eb dhe ishte nj\u00eb vendim qeveritar, ose nj\u00eb vendim parlamentar. Dhe\u00a0dhe e kaluara \u00ebsht\u00eb histori. Ne u t\u00ebrhoq\u00ebm nga Rripi i Gaz\u00ebs, dhe pastaj 2 or\u00eb, 3 vjet m\u00eb von\u00eb, m\u00eb fal, u pushtua plot\u00ebsisht nga Hamasi.<\/span><\/p>\n

Kjo do t\u00eb thot\u00eb q\u00eb Gaza, q\u00eb nga ai moment e n\u00eb vazhdim, u soll, p\u00ebr sa i p\u00ebrket mbrojtjes dhe inteligjenc\u00ebs, ndryshe. Dhe sipas kuptimit tim, \u00ebsht\u00eb m\u00eb shum\u00eb si Libani, Iraku, ose Irani. K\u00ebto jan\u00eb vende ku ti nuk shkon me nj\u00eb xhip, me dy Kallash\u00eb ose \u00e7far\u00ebdo M16, dhe arreston dik\u00eb, e sjell p\u00ebr hetim, dhe e di q\u00eb ai \u00ebsht\u00eb pjes\u00eb e organizat\u00ebs terroriste. Tani ti mund ta hetosh ose ta burgos\u00ebsh, dhe t\u00eb b\u00ebsh \u00e7far\u00ebdo q\u00eb mendon se \u00ebsht\u00eb e drejt\u00eb, p\u00ebr t\u00eb nd\u00ebrprer\u00eb aktivitetin e tij terrorist. Kjo \u00ebsht\u00eb praktika q\u00eb kemi b\u00ebr\u00eb n\u00eb Gaza p\u00ebr shum\u00eb vite. Kjo \u00ebsht\u00eb praktika q\u00eb kemi b\u00ebr\u00eb…<\/span><\/p>\n

Un\u00eb kam punuar n\u00eb Gaza vet\u00eb si operativ i Mossad-it, p\u00ebr t’u trajnuar, p\u00ebr t\u00eb b\u00ebr\u00eb k\u00ebt\u00eb lloj…dhe p\u00ebrs\u00ebri, arabisht dhe, dhe m\u00eb shum\u00eb se kaq. Kam punuar n\u00eb Rripin e Gaz\u00ebs. E kujtoj at\u00eb praktik\u00eb. Ne kishim prani t\u00eb lart\u00eb n\u00eb Gaza, n\u00eb t\u00eb gjitha qytetet q\u00eb tani i njihni m\u00eb mir\u00eb. Por kur u shk\u00ebput\u00ebm nga Gaza, s\u00eb bashku me ushtrin\u00eb, p\u00ebrfundimisht u shk\u00ebput\u00ebm edhe me kapacitetet tona t\u00eb inteligjenc\u00ebs.<\/span><\/p>\n

Dhe n\u00eb vitin 2014, kur ndodhi “Skaji\u00a0Mbrojt\u00ebs” (Protective Edge), dhe kjo \u00ebsht\u00eb nj\u00eb raund tjet\u00ebr dhune q\u00eb po ndodh midis nesh dhe Hamasit, un\u00eb isha at\u00ebher\u00eb K\u00ebshilltar i Siguris\u00eb Komb\u00ebtare dhe tani e kuptoj, \u00e7far\u00eb \u00ebsht\u00eb niveli i inteligjenc\u00ebs q\u00eb ushtria po p\u00ebrdor, p\u00ebr t\u00eb luftuar ose p\u00ebr t\u00eb kund\u00ebrshtuar terrorizmin brenda Gaz\u00ebs. Dhe sipas kuptimit tim at\u00ebher\u00eb, dhe ti i kujton tunelet dep\u00ebrtuese dhe t\u00eb gjitha ato, p\u00ebr t\u00eb cilat ne nuk ishim n\u00eb dijeni, sa jan\u00eb, ku jan\u00eb dhe t\u00eb gjitha ato, niveli i inteligjenc\u00ebs ishte, sipas gjykimit tim, v\u00ebrtet i dob\u00ebt.<\/span><\/p>\n

Un\u00eb shkova n\u00eb K\u00ebshillin e Siguris\u00eb Komb\u00ebtare pasi isha Z\u00ebvend\u00ebsdrejtor n\u00eb Mossad. Pra, t\u00eb gjitha k\u00ebto metoda q\u00eb kisha m\u00ebsuar n\u00eb Mossad, nuk pash\u00eb asnj\u00ebr\u00ebn prej tyre t\u00eb aplikohej n\u00eb Gaza, sepse Mossad-i nuk ishte pjes\u00eb e saj. Ne nuk merremi me historin\u00eb palestineze, apo jo? Jasht\u00eb vendit, po, por jo n\u00eb k\u00ebto territore.<\/span><\/p>\n

Weiss:<\/span> Pra, p\u00ebr t\u00eb p\u00ebrs\u00ebritur at\u00eb q\u00eb po t\u00eb d\u00ebgjoj t\u00eb thuash, ti mendon se qeveria izraelite duhet ta kishte trajtuar Gaz\u00ebn shum\u00eb m\u00eb tep\u00ebr si nj\u00eb vend si Irani apo Libani dhe duke p\u00ebrdorur…<\/span><\/p>\n

Yossi Cohen<\/span>: Po. Po. Duhet ta kishte trajtuar si Iranin dhe t\u00eb kishte p\u00ebrdorur Mossad-in n\u00eb Gaza, ashtu si\u00e7 p\u00ebrdoret n\u00eb ato mjedise armiq\u00ebsore t\u00eb huaja. Por n\u00eb vend t\u00eb k\u00ebsaj, po p\u00ebrdorte ekuivalentin izraelit t\u00eb FBI-s\u00eb, Shin Bet-in. Dhe ti nuk mundesh\u00a0ta b\u00ebsh k\u00ebt\u00eb.<\/span><\/p>\n

Weiss:<\/span> Dhe pse FBI? Dua t\u00eb theksosh k\u00ebt\u00eb.<\/span><\/p>\n

Yossi Cohen:<\/span> Sepse FBI mund t\u00eb shikoj\u00eb \u00e7do der\u00eb, n\u00eb gjith\u00eb SHBA-n\u00eb. Sipas ligjit federal, dhe t\u00eb arrestoj\u00eb dhe hetoj\u00eb dhe pyes\u00eb dhe t\u00eb marr\u00eb \u00e7far\u00ebdo q\u00eb i nevojitet, sipas ligjit federal. Ti nuk mund ta b\u00ebsh k\u00ebt\u00eb n\u00eb Rripin e Gaz\u00ebs m\u00eb. Izraelit\u00ebt jan\u00eb jasht\u00eb Gaz\u00ebs, \u00ebsht\u00eb nj\u00ebsoj si\u00e7 nuk mund t\u00eb udh\u00ebtosh n\u00eb Iran, apo jo?<\/span><\/p>\n

Weiss:<\/span> Pra, at\u00ebher\u00eb pse ishte Shin Bet-i, i cili p\u00ebrs\u00ebri p\u00ebr d\u00ebgjuesit \u00ebsht\u00eb organizata e brendshme e siguris\u00eb izraelite, ekuivalenti i FBI-s\u00eb, pse ishin ata n\u00eb krye t\u00eb mbik\u00ebqyrjes s\u00eb situat\u00ebs n\u00eb Gaza dhe jo Mossad-i?<\/span><\/p>\n

Yossi Cohen:<\/span> Sepse ai ishte zakoni. Ky ishte zakoni izraelit. Ajo q\u00eb un\u00eb ofrova kur hyra n\u00eb Mossad, u rifuta n\u00eb Mossad si drejtor n\u00eb 2016, i ofrova kryeministrit t\u00eb merrte p\u00ebrgjegj\u00ebsin\u00eb e operacioneve speciale dhe inteligjenc\u00ebs n\u00eb Gaza, duke i th\u00ebn\u00eb atij se nuk po sillet si\u00e7 duhej. Dhe un\u00eb e shoh nivelin e inteligjenc\u00ebs super t\u00eb dob\u00ebt. Le t\u00eb aplikojm\u00eb at\u00eb q\u00eb dim\u00eb t\u00eb b\u00ebjm\u00eb. Me metodat tona, me operativ\u00ebt tan\u00eb, sepse ti nuk shkon n\u00eb Rripin e Gaz\u00ebs me nj\u00eb pasaport\u00eb blu, me nj\u00eb pasaport\u00eb izraelite, apo jo?<\/span><\/p>\n

Ti nuk e b\u00ebn k\u00ebt\u00eb. Ti nuk u thua atyre, mir\u00eb, un\u00eb po vij nga Tel Avivi, si\u00e7 b\u00ebjn\u00eb ata n\u00eb drejtimin ton\u00eb, apo jo? Banor\u00ebt e Gaz\u00ebs mund t\u00eb kalojn\u00eb n\u00ebp\u00ebr k\u00ebto kalime n\u00eb shtetin e Izraelit dhe t\u00eb punojn\u00eb me ne, si\u00e7 b\u00ebn\u00eb deri n\u00eb 5 Tetor, ndoshta, apo jo? Dy dit\u00eb para fest\u00ebs ose dy dit\u00eb para 7 Tetorit, 30,000 prej tyre erdh\u00ebn n\u00eb Izrael. Por ne nuk mund t\u00eb shkojm\u00eb atje. Izraelit\u00ebt nuk mund t\u00eb kalojn\u00eb. Kjo \u00ebsht\u00eb nj\u00eb fush\u00eb beteje e nj\u00eb shkalle tjet\u00ebr. Dhe mendova se n\u00eb m\u00ebnyr\u00eb q\u00eb t\u00eb ndihmoj, n\u00eb m\u00ebnyr\u00eb q\u00eb t\u00eb ndihmoj kapacitetet komb\u00ebtare t\u00eb inteligjenc\u00ebs, ata duhet t\u00eb aplikojn\u00eb metodat e Mossad-it. Dhe fatkeq\u00ebsisht mu hodh posht\u00eb.<\/span><\/p>\n

Weiss:<\/span> Pse mendon ti, kur e ngrit\u00ebt k\u00ebt\u00eb ide q\u00eb Mossad-i t\u00eb operonte n\u00eb Gaza, thua se ndjeve n\u00eb ato takime pak p\u00ebrul\u00ebsi dhe munges\u00eb modestie. A po flet p\u00ebr kryeministrin Benjamin Netanyahu apo edhe p\u00ebr njer\u00ebz t\u00eb tjer\u00eb?<\/span><\/p>\n

Yossi Cohen:<\/span> P\u00ebr t\u00eb gjith\u00eb ata. Mendoj se ishte nj\u00eb gabim i madh.<\/span><\/p>\n

Weiss:<\/span> N\u00ebse do t\u00eb kishin d\u00ebgjuar ty, a beson se 7 Tetori nuk do kishte ndodhur?<\/span><\/p>\n

Yossi Cohen: <\/span>Nuk e di p\u00ebr k\u00ebt\u00eb. Por un\u00eb p\u00ebrfundimisht e di se n\u00ebse Mossad-i do t\u00eb ishte i aft\u00eb t\u00eb b\u00ebnte pun\u00ebn e pritur brenda Gaz\u00ebs, si\u00e7 b\u00ebm\u00eb n\u00eb vende t\u00eb tjera, duke mbik\u00ebqyrur shkenc\u00ebtar\u00ebt b\u00ebrthamor\u00eb t\u00eb Iranit, apo pun\u00ebn e r\u00ebnd\u00ebsishme q\u00eb ata b\u00ebjn\u00eb brenda Iranit. E di \u00e7far\u00eb, dhe vjedhja e arkivit b\u00ebrthamor nga zemra e Teheranit \u00ebsht\u00eb m\u00eb e leht\u00eb se Rripi i Gaz\u00ebs. Nuk \u00ebsht\u00eb, nuk \u00ebsht\u00eb. \u00cbsht\u00eb\u00a0thjesht nj\u00eb profesion i ndrysh\u00ebm.<\/span><\/p>\n

Kur diskutojm\u00eb spiunazhin, k\u00ebto jan\u00eb operacione speciale spiunazhi. Duhet t\u00eb dish si t’i kryesh gj\u00ebrat n\u00eb fsheht\u00ebsi. Duhet t\u00eb dish si t’i dep\u00ebrtosh k\u00ebta lloj njer\u00ebzish n\u00eb fsheht\u00ebsi. Duhet t\u00eb dish si t\u00eb jesh si ata n\u00eb fsheht\u00ebsi. Dhe nuk shihja…kishte disa q\u00eb e b\u00ebn\u00eb k\u00ebt\u00eb. Por un\u00eb nuk e shihja q\u00eb kapaciteti q\u00eb ne aplikojm\u00eb n\u00eb Gaza p\u00ebr t\u00eb marr\u00eb inteligjenc\u00ebn q\u00eb na nevojitet, po ndodhte. Dhe kjo \u00ebsht\u00eb arsyeja pse un\u00eb thirra me z\u00eb t\u00eb lart\u00eb. <\/span><\/p>\n

Do jet\u00eb pjes\u00eb, besoj, e komisionit komb\u00ebtar hetimor q\u00eb shpresoj se do formohet nj\u00eb dit\u00eb. Pse jemi ende duke mbajtur t\u00eb nj\u00ebjt\u00ebn struktur\u00eb si\u00e7 b\u00ebm\u00eb 20 vjet m\u00eb par\u00eb kur lam\u00eb Gaz\u00ebn, dhe nuk po aplikojm\u00eb di\u00e7ka t\u00eb re, si ndoshta, ndoshta Mossad-i mund t\u00eb na ndihmoj\u00eb. Pra, nuk e di. Dua t\u00eb them, t\u00eb gjitha kombinimet e t\u00eb gjitha q\u00ebndrimeve karakteristike q\u00eb mund t\u00eb them se kan\u00eb kund\u00ebrshtuar k\u00ebt\u00eb, fatkeq\u00ebsisht.<\/span><\/p>\n

Dhe meq\u00eb ra fjala, nuk jam i sigurt n\u00ebse \u00ebsht\u00eb pjes\u00eb e arsyes p\u00ebr at\u00eb q\u00eb ndodhi n\u00eb 7 Tetor. E di q\u00eb n\u00eb 7 Tetor, nj\u00eb nga d\u00ebshtimet kryesore ishte inteligjenca. Ne nuk i pam\u00eb ata duke ardhur.<\/span><\/p>\n

Weiss:<\/span> Ku ishe n\u00eb m\u00ebngjesin e 7 Tetorit?<\/span><\/p>\n

Yossi Cohen: Isha n\u00eb sht\u00ebpi.<\/span><\/p>\n

Weiss:<\/span> Si e zbulove p\u00ebr her\u00eb t\u00eb par\u00eb at\u00eb q\u00eb po ndodhte?<\/span><\/p>\n

Yossi Cohen: <\/span>Telefoni po binte si i \u00e7mendur. Nj\u00ebri pas tjetrit. Dhe pastaj un\u00eb…dhe pastaj thirra selin\u00eb e Mossad-it. Partner\u00ebt e mi atje, partner\u00eb nga e kaluara, dhe thash\u00eb, kjo po ndodh, dhe un\u00eb vullnetarisht, dua t\u00eb jem p\u00ebr t\u00eb ndihmuar k\u00ebdo q\u00eb kishte nevoj\u00eb p\u00ebr ndihm\u00eb. Shikimi i televizionit ishte nj\u00eb katastrof\u00eb.<\/span><\/p>\n

Si\u00e7 e p\u00ebrshkruaj un\u00eb n\u00eb librin tim, isha i tronditur. Nuk isha i befasuar. Un\u00eb nuk isha i befasuar sepse e dija q\u00eb niveli i inteligjenc\u00ebs ishte\u00a0i dob\u00ebt, fatkeq\u00ebsisht. M\u00eb vjen keq ta them k\u00ebt\u00eb, por…dhe un\u00eb i vler\u00ebsoj homolog\u00ebt e mi n\u00eb organizatat e tjera, dua t\u00eb them, n\u00eb IDF ose Shabak, t\u00eb gjith\u00eb s\u00eb bashku. Por nuk mundem, nuk mund t\u00eb fsheh t\u00eb v\u00ebrtet\u00ebn. E v\u00ebrteta \u00ebsht\u00eb se n\u00ebse niveli i inteligjenc\u00ebs n\u00eb 7 Tetor do t\u00eb ishte i mir\u00eb, ne do t\u00eb kishim nj\u00eb alarm. Dua t\u00eb them, t\u00eb gjith\u00eb or\u00ebt e alarmit do t\u00eb kishin r\u00ebn\u00eb fuqish\u00ebm duke th\u00ebn\u00eb, 1,500 terrorist\u00eb po vijn\u00eb n\u00eb drejtimin tuaj. Nuk \u00ebsht\u00eb nj\u00eb nj\u00ebsi e vog\u00ebl.<\/span><\/p>\n

Propozimi im ishte, ose plani im i pun\u00ebs ishte n\u00eb t\u00eb kaluar\u00ebn, q\u00eb un\u00eb duhet t\u00eb gjej \u00e7do ujk t\u00eb vetmuar q\u00eb shk\u00ebputet nga ISIS-i n\u00eb Irak me nj\u00eb moto\u00e7iklet\u00eb, n\u00eb Siri, dhe pastaj ndoshta ec\u00ebn n\u00eb Liban, dhe pastaj p\u00ebrpiqet t\u00eb marr\u00eb nj\u00eb fluturim nd\u00ebrkomb\u00ebtar duke u ulur vet\u00ebm n\u00eb Paris. Ky\u00a0ishte misioni im: t\u00eb sigurohem q\u00eb ai nuk do t\u00eb godas\u00eb ask\u00ebnd, as izraelit\u00eb, as popullin hebre, as italian\u00eb, francez\u00eb, turq\u00a0madje, apo jo? Dhe un\u00eb nd\u00ebrpreva shum\u00eb mund\u00ebsi si kjo. Dua t\u00eb them, shum\u00eb operacione t\u00eb kryera nga ne p\u00ebr t\u00eb kund\u00ebrshtuar edhe operacionet e ujq\u00ebrve t\u00eb vetmuar, jo nj\u00ebsi, madje edhe vet\u00ebm nj\u00eb. 1,500 \u00ebsht\u00eb shum\u00eb e madhe p\u00ebr t\u00eb mos e ditur.<\/span><\/p>\n

Dua t\u00eb them, mendoni p\u00ebr vitet ose muajt q\u00eb u desh p\u00ebr t\u00eb p\u00ebrgatitur t\u00eb gjitha ato. Mendoni sa njer\u00ebz ishin rreth ose prapa sken\u00ebs duke p\u00ebrgatitur logjistik\u00ebn dhe mjetet e tyre dhe nevojat, makinat, armatimet, municionet, trajnimin, sistemet e komunikimit, sistemet vizuale. Dua t\u00eb them, komanda q\u00eb ishte prapa tij. Dua t\u00eb them, mij\u00ebra njer\u00ebz t\u00eb Hamasit kishin punuar n\u00eb at\u00eb histori, dhe ne nuk pam\u00eb asgj\u00eb, ose pam\u00eb shum\u00eb pak prej saj, si\u00e7 dyshoja se do ndodhte. K\u00ebshtu q\u00eb, kur sinjalizova n\u00eb vitin 2016 se nuk kemi mjaft inteligjenc\u00eb, dola i sakt\u00eb n\u00eb vitin 2023. Dhe po, linja e inteligjenc\u00ebs u shemb plot\u00ebsisht.<\/span><\/p>\n

Weiss:<\/span> Epo, njeriu natyrisht q\u00eb ka qen\u00eb n\u00eb krye t\u00eb lidershipit izraelit n\u00eb 7 Tetor dhe tani \u00ebsht\u00eb personi q\u00eb ka pasur sundimin m\u00eb t\u00eb gjat\u00eb n\u00eb politik\u00ebn izraelite n\u00eb historin\u00eb e vendit. Ai \u00ebsht\u00eb gjithashtu, mendoj se mund t\u00eb thuash me t\u00eb drejt\u00eb, personi q\u00eb ka b\u00ebr\u00eb karrier\u00ebn t\u00ebnde, n\u00ebse ka ndonj\u00eb q\u00eb ka b\u00ebr\u00eb karrier\u00ebn t\u00ebnde p\u00ebrve\u00e7 teje. Netanyahu t\u00eb zgjodhi t\u00eb ishe k\u00ebshilltari i tij i siguris\u00eb komb\u00ebtare n\u00eb\u00a0vitin\u00a02013. Ai t\u00eb em\u00ebroi n\u00eb krye t\u00eb Mossad-it dhe pastaj t\u00eb b\u00ebri kryenegociator gjat\u00eb Marr\u00ebveshjeve\u00a0t\u00eb Abrahamit. Ti ishe nj\u00eb nga zyrtar\u00ebt e tij m\u00eb t\u00eb af\u00ebrt. Ti shkruan se kishe besimin e Benjamin Netanyahut dhe ai kishte respektin t\u00ebnd. Tani po flas me ty dhe ti nuk ke folur me kryeministrin e Izraelit p\u00ebr nj\u00eb vit e gjysm\u00eb, ndoshta pak m\u00eb gjat\u00eb. \u00c7far\u00eb ndryshoi dhe kur ndryshoi?<\/span><\/p>\n

Yossi Cohen<\/span>: Ne nuk jemi miq. Un\u00eb kurr\u00eb nuk i kam pasur komandant\u00ebt apo kryeministrat e mi si miq. Ekziston nj\u00eb distanc\u00eb midis miqve t\u00eb mi dhe komand\u00ebs s\u00eb zinxhirit t\u00eb komand\u00ebs. Dhe ai ishte kryeministri im i duhur p\u00ebr t\u00eb gjitha k\u00ebto pun\u00eb q\u00eb i kam sh\u00ebrbyer shtetit t\u00eb Izraelit, madje edhe para K\u00ebshillit t\u00eb Siguris\u00eb Komb\u00ebtare. Kryeministri \u00ebsht\u00eb ai q\u00eb b\u00ebn em\u00ebrimet, madje edhe si kreu i nj\u00eb divizioni, si nj\u00eb Gjeneral i plot\u00eb. Parlamenti duhet t\u00eb bjer\u00eb dakord p\u00ebr k\u00ebt\u00eb, dhe z\u00ebvend\u00ebsdrejtori duhet t\u00eb bjer\u00eb dakord p\u00ebr k\u00ebt\u00eb, dhe ai e b\u00ebri. Pra, praktikisht, ai m\u00eb nominoi kat\u00ebr her\u00eb. Jo drejtp\u00ebrdrejt, por dy her\u00eb drejtp\u00ebrdrejt. \u00cbsht\u00eb shum\u00eb.<\/span><\/p>\n

Dhe p\u00ebrs\u00ebri, i referohem atij me nj\u00eb ndjenj\u00eb t\u00eb madhe respekti, sepse k\u00ebt\u00eb mendoja un\u00eb p\u00ebr at\u00eb q\u00eb po b\u00ebn. Dhe mendoj se historia e mbrojtjes, ose dosja e mbrojtjes n\u00eb zyr\u00ebn e kryeministrit, \u00ebsht\u00eb shum\u00eb, shum\u00eb e mbrojtur. Ai v\u00ebrtet kujdeset p\u00ebr sigurin\u00eb e shtetit t\u00eb Izraelit.\u00a0Un\u00eb dola vullnetar m\u00eb 8 Tetor p\u00ebr t\u00eb ndihmuar n\u00eb negociatat p\u00ebr pengjet, duke shpjeguar\u00a0gjendjen e marr\u00ebveshjes q\u00eb nuk e kemi v\u00ebrtet, dhe duke krijuar nj\u00eb lloj korridori humanitar midis nesh dhe Egjiptit, n\u00eb m\u00ebnyr\u00eb q\u00eb t\u00eb ndihmojm\u00eb popullin e Gaz\u00ebs t\u00eb largohet nga Gaza para se t\u00eb filloj\u00eb lufta, dhe t\u00eb ndihmojm\u00eb trupat izraelite, t\u00eb p\u00ebrmbushin objektivat e tyre pa krijuar ndonj\u00eb kriz\u00eb humanitare. Dhe ai e pranoi k\u00ebt\u00eb. Paragrafin e fundit ai e b\u00ebri. Por pastaj, p\u00ebr disa arsye q\u00eb jan\u00eb tek ai, nuk e di, komunikimi u nd\u00ebrpre, dhe pastaj z\u00ebvend\u00ebsuesi im u largua, dhe un\u00eb nuk po e b\u00ebj m\u00eb. Dhe ne nuk flasim me nj\u00ebri-tjetrin.<\/span><\/p>\n

Weiss:<\/span> Por nuk pati ndonj\u00eb p\u00ebrplasje t\u00eb ndonj\u00eb lloji.<\/span><\/p>\n

Yossi Cohen<\/span>: Asgj\u00eb. Jo. Jo.<\/span><\/p>\n

Weiss:<\/span> Thjesht u b\u00ebre fantazm\u00eb.<\/span><\/p>\n

Yossi Cohen<\/span>: Nj\u00eb\u00a0mace e zez\u00eb, apo si thuhet. Asgj\u00eb nuk na ka kaluar n\u00ebp\u00ebr mendje. Ne nuk, nuk zihemi, natyrisht. Mendoj se mund t\u00eb kisha kontribuar m\u00eb shum\u00eb n\u00ebse ai do e\u00a0kishte dashur ose n\u00ebse do t’i duhej, por fatkeq\u00ebsisht nuk ndodhi.<\/span><\/p>\n

P\u00ebrgjegj\u00ebsia e Netanyahut<\/b><\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n

Weiss:<\/span> Ti ke th\u00ebn\u00eb se BB \u00ebsht\u00eb p\u00ebrgjegj\u00ebs p\u00ebr gjith\u00e7ka q\u00eb ndodhi n\u00eb 7 Tetor. Ai kurr\u00eb nuk ka k\u00ebrkuar falje v\u00ebrtet p\u00ebr ngjarjet e 7 Tetorit. Un\u00eb…<\/span><\/p>\n

Yossi Cohen<\/span>: Un\u00eb mendoj se ai e di at\u00eb.<\/span><\/p>\n

Weiss:<\/span> Dhe mendon se ai di \u00e7far\u00eb?<\/span><\/p>\n

Yossi Cohen<\/span>: Un\u00eb mendoj se ai e di q\u00eb \u00ebsht\u00eb p\u00ebrgjegj\u00ebs p\u00ebr gjith\u00e7ka. Edhe n\u00ebse nuk k\u00ebrkon falje, apo jo? Edhe n\u00ebse nuk merr asnj\u00eb p\u00ebrgjegj\u00ebsi, si\u00e7 pohoj un\u00eb se ai ka, un\u00eb i d\u00ebrgova nj\u00eb mesazh shum\u00eb t\u00eb qart\u00eb hapur, kur dhash\u00eb intervista n\u00eb televizionin ton\u00eb, thash\u00eb se ai duhet t\u00eb shpall\u00eb zgjedhje, k\u00ebshtu q\u00eb ne do vendosim n\u00ebse ai duhet t\u00eb jet\u00eb p\u00ebrs\u00ebri kryeminist\u00ebr apo jo. Por ai kurr\u00eb nuk e b\u00ebri.<\/span><\/p>\n

Dhe m\u00eb shum\u00eb se kaq, kur merr p\u00ebrgjegj\u00ebsin\u00eb? Cila \u00ebsht\u00eb ajo koh\u00eb kur merr p\u00ebrgjegj\u00ebsin\u00eb?<\/span><\/p>\n

Weiss:<\/span> Kur ishe i nominuar.<\/span><\/p>\n

Yossi Cohen<\/span>: Kur un\u00eb marr k\u00ebt\u00eb cop\u00eb let\u00ebr shum\u00eb t\u00eb shkurt\u00ebr q\u00eb thot\u00eb, “Kryeministri dhe Shteti i Izraelit, Qeveria e Izraelit t\u00eb nominon ty t\u00eb jesh kreu i Mossad-it. T\u00eb lutem firmos k\u00ebtu dhe k\u00ebtu.” Kjo \u00ebsht\u00eb\u00a0pika q\u00eb ti po merr p\u00ebrgjegj\u00ebsin\u00eb. Nga tani e tutje, gjith\u00e7ka q\u00eb ndodh n\u00ebn mbik\u00ebqyrjen t\u00ebnde \u00ebsht\u00eb p\u00ebrgjegj\u00ebsia jote. Operacionet k\u00ebtu n\u00eb Mossad, n\u00ebn mua, jan\u00eb p\u00ebrgjegj\u00ebsia imeN\u00ebse di\u00e7ka shkon keq gjat\u00eb gjith\u00eb koh\u00ebs, p\u00ebr mir\u00eb dhe p\u00ebr keq, p\u00ebr m\u00eb mir\u00eb a p\u00ebr m\u00eb keq. N\u00ebse \u00ebsht\u00eb n\u00eb rregull, merr meritat. T\u00eb gjith\u00eb mund t\u00eb marrin meritat kur \u00ebsht\u00eb n\u00eb rregull. Por edhe kur di\u00e7ka\u00a0shkon\u00a0keq dhe ti d\u00ebshton.\u00a0Natyrisht, \u00ebsht\u00eb p\u00ebrgjegj\u00ebsia jote. E kujt \u00ebsht\u00eb?<\/span><\/p>\n

Weiss:<\/span> Epo, e drejt\u00eb.<\/span><\/p>\n

Yossi Cohen<\/span>: Pra, ti nuk merr p\u00ebrgjegj\u00ebsin\u00eb sepse thjesht\u00a0di\u00e7ka shkon\u00a0keq. Ti merr p\u00ebrgjegj\u00ebsin\u00eb sepse ti je komandanti i Mossad-it, p\u00ebr gjith\u00e7ka q\u00eb ndodh nga dita e par\u00eb deri n\u00eb dit\u00ebn e fundit.<\/span><\/p>\n

\"\"<\/a><\/p>\n

Zgjatja e <\/b><\/strong>l<\/b><\/strong>uft\u00ebs n\u00eb Gaza<\/b><\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n

Weiss:<\/span> Yosi, si\u00e7 e di ti, nj\u00eb nga kritikat ndaj BB-s\u00eb, dhe ka shum\u00eb prej tyre, por nj\u00eb nga pik\u00ebpamjet m\u00eb t\u00eb forta dhe m\u00eb t\u00eb pasionuara brenda Izraelit nga njer\u00ebz shum\u00eb patriot\u00eb, \u00ebsht\u00eb leximi mjaft cinik\u00a0– dhe ndoshta i sakt\u00eb, p\u00ebr t\u00eb cilin dua t\u00eb t\u00eb pyes\u00a0– q\u00eb kryeministri po e vazhdon luft\u00ebn sepse d\u00ebshiron t\u00eb mbetet n\u00eb pushtet.<\/span><\/p>\n

Yossi Cohen<\/span>: Nuk mendoj se \u00ebsht\u00eb k\u00ebshtu. Un\u00eb jam n\u00eb dijeni t\u00eb k\u00ebsaj kritike, dhe nuk mendoj se BB d\u00ebshiron t\u00eb vazhdoj\u00eb luft\u00ebn. Un\u00eb e di q\u00eb ai d\u00ebshiron t\u00eb p\u00ebrfundoj\u00eb luft\u00ebn. E di q\u00eb ai d\u00ebshiron t\u00eb ket\u00eb nj\u00eb p\u00ebrfundim q\u00eb nuk e ka plot\u00ebsisht ende. Sepse n\u00eb fillim t\u00eb dit\u00ebve t\u00eb luft\u00ebs, ai tha, “K\u00ebto jan\u00eb objektivat e asaj lufte: Mposhtja e Hamasit dhe sundimit t\u00eb Hamasit brenda Gaz\u00ebs, dhe kthimi i t\u00eb gjith\u00eb pengjeve.” Kjo nuk ka ndodhur ende.<\/span><\/p>\n

Weiss:<\/span> Por un\u00eb do argumentoja se ato dy gj\u00ebra jan\u00eb reciprokisht ekskluzive, ndoshta reciprokisht ekskluzive, nj\u00ebra ndaj tjetr\u00ebs, apo ndoshta duke punuar s\u00eb bashku. Sepse mendoj se ka nj\u00eb p\u00ebrputhje midis asaj q\u00eb d\u00ebshiron t\u00eb arrij\u00eb qeveria, me t\u00eb cil\u00ebn un\u00eb mund t\u00eb pajtohem. T\u00eb gjith\u00eb n\u00eb Izrael duan, t\u00eb gjith\u00eb n\u00eb bot\u00eb duan t\u00eb shohin Hamasin\u00a0t\u00eb mposhtet, apo jo? T\u00eb gjith\u00eb n\u00eb bot\u00eb dhe n\u00eb Izrael, duan t\u00eb shohin pengjet t\u00eb kthehen n\u00eb sht\u00ebpi.<\/span><\/p>\n

Pra, si e b\u00ebn k\u00ebt\u00eb? Si arrin deri aty? Dhe si e mposht Hamasin n\u00ebse gj\u00ebja q\u00eb po e mban Hamasin n\u00eb pushtet jan\u00eb pengjet?<\/span><\/p>\n

Yossi Cohen<\/span>: Nuk \u00ebsht\u00eb pazari i tyre m\u00eb i madh. Por kjo nuk \u00ebsht\u00eb\u00a0thjesht\u00a0vet\u00ebm n\u00eb kokat tona, dhe si\u00e7 mund t\u00eb argumentoj un\u00eb, dua t\u00eb them, me bot\u00ebn dhe me izraelit\u00ebt q\u00eb po kritikojn\u00eb, t\u00eb gjith\u00eb po kritikojn\u00eb t\u00eb gjith\u00eb tani n\u00eb Izrael aq dramatikisht\u00a0por \u00e7astin q\u00eb Hamasi do kthej\u00eb p\u00ebrfundimisht, do na dor\u00ebzoj\u00eb pengjet, kjo do jet\u00eb deklarata absolute e fundit t\u00eb luft\u00ebs. \u00cbsht\u00eb absolutisht n\u00eb duart e tyre. N\u00ebse ata v\u00ebrtet duan t\u00eb sigurohen q\u00eb populli i Gaz\u00ebs t\u00eb mos vuaj\u00eb m\u00eb, n\u00ebse v\u00ebrtet duan t\u00eb sigurohen q\u00eb lufta t\u00eb p\u00ebrfundoj\u00eb p\u00ebrfundimisht ose plot\u00ebsisht, ata duhet t\u00eb dor\u00ebzojn\u00eb t\u00eb gjith\u00eb pengjet.<\/span><\/p>\n

Weiss:<\/span> Por \u00ebsht\u00eb ekzistenciale p\u00ebr ta sepse\u2026ti po flet sikur nj\u00eb nga q\u00ebllimet e tyre \u00ebsht\u00eb populli i Gaz\u00ebs, populli i pafajsh\u00ebm i Gaz\u00ebs q\u00eb t\u00eb mos vuaj\u00eb. Pra, n\u00ebse heqin dor\u00eb nga pengjet, ata n\u00eb thelb…<\/span><\/p>\n

Yossi Cohen<\/span>: Mir\u00eb, pra le ta b\u00ebjm\u00eb\u00a0me lejen t\u00ebnde, hap pas hapi. Pra, nuk \u00ebsht\u00eb p\u00ebr shkak t\u00eb BB-s\u00eb. Tani pyetja ishte, a d\u00ebshiron BB q\u00eb lufta t\u00eb vazhdoj\u00eb p\u00ebrgjithmon\u00eb? Jo, nuk mendoj se d\u00ebshiron. Nuk mendoj se d\u00ebshiron q\u00eb lufta t\u00eb jet\u00eb atje p\u00ebrgjithmon\u00eb. E di q\u00eb ai po p\u00ebrpiqej n\u00eb t\u00eb kaluar\u00ebn t\u00eb shk\u00ebputej nga k\u00ebto mund\u00ebsi t\u00eb luft\u00ebrave, apo jo? Dua t\u00eb them, ai nuk donte ta b\u00ebnte k\u00ebt\u00eb.<\/span><\/p>\n

Por un\u00eb nuk jam m\u00eb n\u00eb rrethin e brendsh\u00ebm t\u00eb vendimmarr\u00ebsve, fatkeq\u00ebsisht apo fatmir\u00ebsisht, nuk e di, do m\u00eb duhet t\u00eb mendoj p\u00ebr k\u00ebt\u00eb. Por sidoqoft\u00eb, mendoj se n\u00eb fund t\u00eb dit\u00ebs, kur jemi n\u00eb…si\u00e7 that\u00eb ju, fatkeq\u00ebsisht, n\u00eb duart e Hamasit, dhe vendimi i fundit t\u00eb luft\u00ebs do merret reciprokisht nga Shteti i Izraelit dhe nga organizata Hamas. Kjo \u00ebsht\u00eb pika m\u00eb e dob\u00ebt e shtetit t\u00eb fort\u00eb t\u00eb Izraelit. Duke u kthyer te i nj\u00ebjti diskutim, a jam un\u00eb i tronditur, i zhg\u00ebnjyer, i befasuar q\u00eb jemi n\u00eb k\u00ebt\u00eb\u00a0gjendje? Nuk jam i befasuar, por i tronditur q\u00eb jemi n\u00eb k\u00ebt\u00eb gjendje.<\/span><\/p>\n

Duke par\u00eb videot q\u00eb dalin nga populli i Gaz\u00ebs, dita e 7 Tetorit e n\u00eb vazhdim, duke par\u00eb ceremonit\u00eb e lirimit t\u00eb pengjeve, dhe ata jan\u00eb ende atje\u00a0prej\u00a02 vjet\u00ebsh\u00a0dhe Hamasi \u00ebsht\u00eb ende atje. Kjo \u00ebsht\u00eb vet\u00ebm p\u00ebr shkak t\u00eb nj\u00eb fakti: q\u00eb ata po mbajn\u00eb pengjet tona. Hamasi e di k\u00ebt\u00eb.<\/span><\/p>\n

Mendoj se n\u00ebse mund t\u00eb kalojm\u00eb shpejt te koha e sulmit n\u00eb Doha, mendoj se kjo ishte arsyeja e gjith\u00eb k\u00ebsaj.<\/span><\/p>\n

Weiss:<\/span> Ky \u00ebsht\u00eb sulmi i fundit izraelit i d\u00ebshtuar ndaj nj\u00eb grupi t\u00eb drejtuesve t\u00eb Hamasit n\u00eb Katar.<\/span><\/p>\n

Yossi Cohen<\/span>: Po, kjo nuk ishte e suksesshme.<\/span><\/p>\n

Weiss:<\/span> Ndoshta jo.<\/span><\/p>\n

Yossi Cohen<\/span>: Ndoshta jo. Dua t\u00eb them, ti do e kishe marr\u00eb vesh n\u00ebse do ishte e suksesshme. Pik\u00ebrisht k\u00ebshtu, por ndoshta jan\u00eb si n\u00eb situata t\u00eb nd\u00ebrmjetme. Nuk e di v\u00ebrtet k\u00ebt\u00eb. Do duhet t’i shohim publikisht.\u00a0Disa prej tyre jan\u00eb shfaqur publikisht tashm\u00eb dhe japin deklarata t\u00eb tjera shum\u00eb t\u00eb forta dhe t\u00eb ndyra\u00a0kund\u00ebr shtetit t\u00eb Izraelit dhe agresionit q\u00eb b\u00ebjm\u00eb, por ata jan\u00eb ende atje. N\u00ebse na p\u00eblqen apo jo, nuk na p\u00eblqen, por ata jan\u00eb ende atje. <\/span><\/p>\n

K\u00ebshtu q\u00eb ne duhet t\u00eb p\u00ebrballemi n\u00eb nj\u00eb m\u00ebnyr\u00eb strategjike me at\u00eb element, q\u00eb ekziston organizata Hamas, me t\u00eb cil\u00ebn duhet t\u00eb diskutojm\u00eb, n\u00eb m\u00ebnyr\u00eb t\u00eb t\u00ebrthort\u00eb, por ne jemi n\u00eb duart e\u00a0lidershipit t\u00eb Hamasit jo drejtp\u00ebrdrejt, por krer\u00ebt e Katarit\u00a0ose Egjiptit\u00a0q\u00eb po p\u00ebrpiqen t\u00eb nd\u00ebrmjet\u00ebsojn\u00eb p\u00ebr pengjet ende. Dhe un\u00eb v\u00ebrtet besoj se n\u00ebse kjo do ket\u00eb sukses, n\u00ebse t\u00eb gjith\u00eb k\u00ebta pengje\u00a0do lirohen, me ndihm\u00ebn e Zotit, do lirohen nga Rripi i Gaz\u00ebs, mendoj se kjo do jet\u00eb deklarata absolute e fundit t\u00eb luft\u00ebs.<\/span><\/p>\n

\"\"<\/a><\/p>\n

Marr\u00ebveshjet e Abrahamit dhe Arabia Saudite<\/b><\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n

Weiss:<\/span> Dua t\u00eb shkoj p\u00ebrtej Gaz\u00ebs p\u00ebr nj\u00eb sekond\u00eb dhe ndoshta t\u00eb zgjeroj fokusin n\u00eb Lindjen e Mesme m\u00eb gjer\u00eb. Ti ishe kryenegociatori, si\u00e7 e p\u00ebrmenda, p\u00ebr Marr\u00ebveshjet e Abrahamit me Emiratet e Bashkuara Arabe dhe Bahreinin n\u00eb 2020. Dhe ti shkruan k\u00ebt\u00eb n\u00eb librin t\u00ebnd: “M\u00eb kujtohen lot\u00ebt q\u00eb m\u00eb rridhnin n\u00ebp\u00ebr faqe nd\u00ebrsa isha ulur n\u00eb l\u00ebndin\u00ebn jugore t\u00eb Sht\u00ebpis\u00eb s\u00eb Bardh\u00eb, nd\u00ebrsa Deklarata e Marr\u00ebveshjeve t\u00eb Abrahamit u n\u00ebnshkrua m\u00eb 15 Shtator.” Dy pyetje. A mund ta kishe imagjinuar ndonj\u00ebher\u00eb?<\/span><\/p>\n

Yossi Cohen<\/span>: Po.<\/span><\/p>\n

Weiss:<\/span> A\u00a0qan shpesh?<\/span><\/p>\n

Yossi Cohen<\/span>: Jo.<\/span><\/p>\n

Weiss:<\/span> A mund ta kishe imagjinuar ndonj\u00ebher\u00eb q\u00eb di\u00e7ka e till\u00eb t\u00eb ndodhte n\u00eb jet\u00ebn t\u00ebnde? Dhe a mund t\u00eb kishte ndodhur n\u00ebn ndonj\u00eb president tjet\u00ebr p\u00ebrve\u00e7 Donald Trump?<\/span><\/p>\n

Yossi Cohen<\/span>: Interesante. Vizioni q\u00eb un\u00eb kam brenda meje \u00ebsht\u00eb se ne duhet t\u00eb jemi shum\u00eb t\u00eb fort\u00eb, thell\u00ebsisht t\u00eb fort\u00eb p\u00ebr t\u00eb luftuar armiqt\u00eb tan\u00eb, por ne duhet t\u00eb arrijm\u00eb traktate paqeje n\u00eb Lindjen e Mesme. Praktikisht kjo \u00ebsht\u00eb m\u00ebnyra e vetme p\u00ebr t\u00eb mbijetuar n\u00eb Lindjen e Mesme. Ushtria jon\u00eb \u00ebsht\u00eb e fort\u00eb, por\u00a0\u00ebsht\u00eb e shtrenjt\u00eb, e shtrenjt\u00eb n\u00eb \u00e7mimin m\u00eb t\u00eb lart\u00eb q\u00eb po paguajm\u00eb. Edhe sot kat\u00ebr ushtar\u00eb jan\u00eb vrar\u00eb nga organizata terroriste p\u00ebrs\u00ebri. Dhe kjo, kjo krijoi shum\u00eb trishtim. \u00ebsht\u00eb shum\u00eb e shtrenjt\u00eb\u00a0p\u00ebr shtetin, t\u00eb kryej\u00eb k\u00ebt\u00eb lloj marr\u00ebdh\u00ebnie me bot\u00ebn. \u00ebsht\u00eb shum\u00eb m\u00eb mir\u00eb\u00a0\u00a0t\u00eb kalosh vij\u00ebn dhe t’i kthesh armiqt\u00eb n\u00eb miq.<\/span><\/p>\n

Weiss:<\/span> Por a mund ta kishte arritur k\u00ebt\u00eb nj\u00eb president tjet\u00ebr p\u00ebrve\u00e7 Trumpit?<\/span><\/p>\n

Yossi Cohen<\/span>: Praktikisht, un\u00eb nuk pash\u00eb ask\u00ebnd ta b\u00ebnte k\u00ebt\u00eb. Dua t\u00eb them, kishe president\u00eb t\u00eb ndrysh\u00ebm. Carter b\u00ebri marr\u00ebveshjen egjiptiane. Clinton b\u00ebri marr\u00ebveshjen jordaneze. Le t’i kalojm\u00eb Marr\u00ebveshjet e Oslos kur Yaser Arafat mori \u00c7mimin Nobel. Harroji t\u00eb gjitha ato. Marrja e nj\u00eb \u00c7mimi Nobel \u00ebsht\u00eb mjaft shqet\u00ebsuese p\u00ebr mua.<\/span><\/p>\n

Por duke shkuar te Marr\u00ebveshjet e Abrahamit, un\u00eb besoj se ato jan\u00eb shtyr\u00eb n\u00eb m\u00ebnyr\u00eb dramatike n\u00eb k\u00ebt\u00eb drejtim t\u00eb traktateve t\u00eb paqes p\u00ebr shkak t\u00eb k\u00ebtij presidenti, t\u00eb cilin e vler\u00ebsoj shum\u00eb. Mendoj se n\u00ebn Presidentin Trump u n\u00ebnshkruan tre ose kat\u00ebr marr\u00ebveshje, traktate paqeje. Cinikisht, ai nuk mori asnj\u00eb \u00c7mim Nobel p\u00ebr k\u00ebt\u00eb. E di q\u00eb president\u00eb t\u00eb tjer\u00eb k\u00ebtu kan\u00eb marr\u00eb \u00c7mim Nobel pa b\u00ebr\u00eb ndonj\u00eb traktat paqeje, por vet\u00ebm p\u00ebr shkak t\u00eb deklaratave se “ne do p\u00ebrpiqemi p\u00ebr paqe n\u00eb bot\u00eb”.<\/span><\/p>\n

Weiss:<\/span> A e meriton ai nj\u00eb \u00c7mim Nobel?<\/span><\/p>\n

Yossi Cohen<\/span>: Absolutisht po.<\/span><\/p>\n

Weiss:<\/span> Epo, vendi tjet\u00ebr i madh q\u00eb t\u00eb gjith\u00eb po shikojn\u00eb p\u00ebr t’u bashkuar me Marr\u00ebveshjet e Abrahamit \u00ebsht\u00eb natyrisht Arabia Saudite. Dhe ti ke nd\u00ebrtuar nj\u00eb marr\u00ebdh\u00ebnie mjaft t\u00eb ngusht\u00eb, si\u00e7 duket, me MBS-n\u00eb (Muhammad bin Salman). Ai \u00ebsht\u00eb Princi i Kuror\u00ebs 40-vje\u00e7ar. \u00cbsht\u00eb e v\u00ebshtir\u00eb t\u00eb besohet se \u00ebsht\u00eb kaq i ri. Ja \u00e7far\u00eb shkruan n\u00eb librin t\u00ebnd: “Kam besim t\u00eb madh te MBS si nj\u00eb figur\u00eb ky\u00e7e n\u00eb rajon. E kam gjetur at\u00eb t\u00eb ashp\u00ebr, por t\u00eb drejt\u00eb, perceptues dhe pragmatik. Ai ka potencialin t\u00eb personifikoj\u00eb nj\u00eb ndryshim epok\u00eb-p\u00ebrcaktues n\u00eb pesh\u00eb dhe pritshm\u00ebri. Ai \u00ebsht\u00eb n\u00eb pararoj\u00eb t\u00eb nj\u00eb brezi t\u00eb ri t\u00eb lider\u00ebve rajonal\u00eb.”\u00a0<\/span>Saudit\u00ebt kan\u00eb th\u00ebn\u00eb se nuk do i\u00a0normalizojn\u00eb marr\u00ebdh\u00ebniet me Izraelin. Me fjal\u00eb t\u00eb tjera, ata nuk do t\u00eb n\u00ebnshkruajn\u00eb nj\u00eb marr\u00ebveshje t\u00eb Marr\u00ebveshjeve t\u00eb Abrahamit derisa t\u00eb ket\u00eb nj\u00eb shtet palestinez. A e beson k\u00ebt\u00eb?<\/span><\/p>\n

Yossi Cohen<\/span>: Mendoj se ekziston nj\u00eb hendek publikisht dhe \u00e7far\u00eb thon\u00eb n\u00eb privat.<\/span><\/p>\n

Weiss:<\/span> Pik\u00ebrisht. \u00c7far\u00eb thon\u00eb n\u00eb privat?<\/span><\/p>\n

Yossi Cohen<\/span>: Q\u00eb ata do i\u00a0normalizojn\u00eb marr\u00ebdh\u00ebniet me Shtetin e Izraelit, p\u00ebr sa koh\u00eb q\u00eb do t\u00eb ken\u00eb dy kushte kryesore para k\u00ebsaj.<\/span><\/p>\n

Nj\u00ebri \u00ebsht\u00eb fundi i luft\u00ebs. Nuk mund t\u00eb n\u00ebnshkruash nj\u00eb marr\u00ebveshje, nj\u00eb traktat, kur ka nj\u00eb luft\u00eb, nj\u00eb luft\u00eb aktive\u00a0me ne. Nuk \u00ebsht\u00eb se po luftojm\u00eb dik\u00eb tjet\u00ebr. Po luftojm\u00eb organizat\u00ebn terroriste, natyrisht, por po luftojm\u00eb mysliman\u00eb dhe arab\u00eb. Nuk po I luftojm\u00eb sepse jan\u00eb mysliman\u00eb apo arab\u00eb, por sepse jan\u00eb nj\u00eb organizat\u00eb terroriste. Por ne e b\u00ebjm\u00eb k\u00ebt\u00eb. N\u00eb Lindjen e Mesme, nuk mund t\u00eb luftosh v\u00ebrtet dhe t\u00eb b\u00ebsh traktate paqeje. Nuk mund t\u00eb shkosh n\u00eb l\u00ebndin\u00ebn jugore t\u00eb Sht\u00ebpis\u00eb s\u00eb Bardh\u00eb dhe t\u00eb n\u00ebnshkruash nj\u00eb marr\u00ebveshje nd\u00ebrsa ka\u00a0njer\u00ebz q\u00eb po vdesin n\u00eb an\u00ebn tjet\u00ebr t\u00eb bot\u00ebs. Dhe kjo \u00ebsht\u00eb numri nj\u00eb.<\/span><\/p>\n

Numri dy \u00ebsht\u00eb se Arabia Saudite nuk e ka p\u00ebrfunduar normalizimin e saj me amerikan\u00ebt, sepse ka disa k\u00ebrkesa.\u00a0Ai d\u00ebshiron q\u00eb paktet e mbrojtjes t\u00eb n\u00ebnshkruhen. Ai d\u00ebshiron t\u00eb ket\u00eb nj\u00eb lloj objekti b\u00ebrthamor, p\u00ebr t\u00eb pasuruar. Ai tha: “N\u00ebse Irani mundet, sipas marr\u00ebveshjes, un\u00eb mund ta b\u00ebj k\u00ebt\u00eb gjithashtu, p\u00ebr q\u00ebllime civile, natyrisht.”<\/i><\/em><\/span><\/p>\n

Pra, un\u00eb besoj se sekuenca do ishte fundi i luft\u00ebs, normalizimi, normalizimi i plot\u00eb me amerikan\u00ebt, n\u00eb m\u00ebnyr\u00eb q\u00eb ju t\u00eb miratoni at\u00eb q\u00eb i nevojitet, dhe ju do t’i thoni atij se n\u00ebse gj\u00ebrat shkojn\u00eb m\u00eb keq dhe p\u00ebr shkak t\u00eb k\u00ebtij traktati paqeje, ai mund t\u00eb sulmohet nga Irani-ky \u00ebsht\u00eb armiku i tij m\u00eb i ndyr\u00eb-ai ka nevoj\u00eb p\u00ebr ca garanci q\u00eb do e\u00a0mbaj\u00eb vendin e tij t\u00eb sigurt, duke ditur se nuk mund ta b\u00ebj\u00eb k\u00ebt\u00eb vet\u00ebm. Edhe n\u00ebse do t’i shes\u00ebsh armatimet m\u00eb t\u00eb mira q\u00eb mundet, edhe n\u00ebse do t\u00eb ket\u00eb mbrojtjen ajrore m\u00eb t\u00eb mir\u00eb q\u00eb mund t\u00eb marr\u00eb nga ju apo nga t\u00eb tjer\u00ebt, dhe ai mundet, ai ka shum\u00eb para\u00a0p\u00ebr t’i bler\u00eb t\u00eb gjitha k\u00ebto\u00a0– mendoj se ai ka nevoj\u00eb q\u00eb ju t\u00eb jeni n\u00eb bord kur gj\u00ebrat shkojn\u00eb m\u00eb keq, dhe praktikisht ose potencialisht do sulmohet nga Irani. Kjo \u00ebsht\u00eb ajo q\u00eb po k\u00ebrkon nga SHBA.<\/span><\/p>\n

N\u00ebse k\u00ebto dy do p\u00ebrfundohen, mendoj se ne mund t\u00eb shkojm\u00eb t\u00eb negociojm\u00eb nj\u00eb traktat paqeje t\u00eb ardhsh\u00ebm me saudit\u00ebt, natyrisht.<\/span><\/p>\n

N\u00eb rregull. Pra, dua t\u00eb flas vet\u00ebm p\u00ebr nj\u00eb sekond\u00eb, mund t\u00eb kishim nj\u00eb bised\u00eb dy-or\u00ebshe vet\u00ebm p\u00ebr k\u00ebt\u00eb\u00a0por p\u00ebr pyetjen e shtet\u00ebsis\u00eb palestineze. P\u00ebr mua, kjo \u00ebsht\u00eb n\u00eb thelb t\u00eb nj\u00eb kritike shum\u00eb, shum\u00eb t\u00eb sakt\u00eb ndaj Izraelit, e cila \u00ebsht\u00eb se ata nuk kan\u00eb nj\u00eb strategji afatgjat\u00eb. Dhe izraelit\u00ebt jan\u00eb futur n\u00eb nj\u00eb situat\u00eb t\u00eb paq\u00ebndrueshme. Dhe situata e paq\u00ebndrueshme \u00ebsht\u00eb se t\u00eb dyja opsionet jan\u00eb t\u00eb pamundura.<\/span><\/p>\n

Situata n\u00eb Gaza, historia: Viti 2006, Izraeli t\u00ebrhiqet, nj\u00eb shtet terrorist themelohet tre vjet m\u00eb von\u00eb n\u00eb kufi, dhe tani shiko \u00e7far\u00eb po ndodh. M\u00ebsimi nga kjo, natyrisht, ose t\u00eb pakt\u00ebn p\u00ebr shum\u00eb njer\u00ebz, \u00ebsht\u00eb pse do e\u00a0b\u00ebnit t\u00eb nj\u00ebjt\u00ebn gj\u00eb n\u00eb Bregun Per\u00ebndimor, t\u00eb cilin shum\u00eb izraelit\u00eb e quajn\u00eb Judea dhe Samaria. Nga nj\u00ebra an\u00eb, \u00ebsht\u00eb nj\u00eb situat\u00eb e pamundur. Nuk mund t’u jap\u00ebsh palestinez\u00ebve nj\u00eb shtet. Nga ana tjet\u00ebr, \u00ebsht\u00eb nj\u00eb situat\u00eb e paq\u00ebndrueshme t\u00eb vazhdosh t\u00eb sundosh mbi nj\u00eb popull tjet\u00ebr.<\/span><\/p>\n

Yossi Cohen<\/span>: Jo, jo, jo. Por kjo \u00ebsht\u00eb m\u00ebnyra se si mund ta p\u00ebrshkruash. Kushdo q\u00eb mban nj\u00eb cop\u00eb \u00e7far\u00ebdo inteligjence apo informacioni, nga media, nga mediat sociale, mund t\u00eb ket\u00eb nj\u00eb opinion p\u00ebr shum\u00eb gj\u00ebra. Mund t\u00eb jet\u00eb shum\u00eb e rrezikshme ndonj\u00ebher\u00eb, si n\u00eb fatkeq\u00ebsin\u00eb e Charlie Hebdo-s, por dua t\u00eb them, kushdo mund t’i referohet \u00e7do gj\u00ebje aq sa d\u00ebshiron.<\/span><\/p>\n

Por kjo \u00ebsht\u00eb n\u00eb rregull p\u00ebr t’u pyetur, sepse sipas kuptimit tim, ndarja e past\u00ebr q\u00eb kishim brenda shoq\u00ebris\u00eb izraelite, kjo q\u00eb mendonte se zgjidhja me dy shtete \u00ebsht\u00eb zgjidhja, kjo q\u00eb mendonte se Izraeli \u00ebsht\u00eb i gjithi i yni, kjo ndarje ka mbaruar. Ne nuk e b\u00ebjm\u00eb k\u00ebt\u00eb m\u00eb.<\/span><\/p>\n

Weiss:<\/span> Pse?<\/span><\/p>\n

Yossi Cohen<\/span>: P\u00ebr shkak t\u00eb realitetit.<\/span><\/p>\n

Weiss:<\/span> Cili \u00ebsht\u00eb konsensusi i ri?<\/span><\/p>\n

Yossi Cohen<\/span>: Nuk kemi asnj\u00eb.<\/span><\/p>\n

Weiss:<\/span> Konsensusi i ri \u00ebsht\u00eb prit dhe shiko?<\/span><\/p>\n

Yossi Cohen<\/span>:<\/span> Konsensusi i ri \u00ebsht\u00eb, po disa n\u00eb t\u00eb majt\u00eb do t\u00eb thoshin, po, zgjidhja me dy shtete \u00ebsht\u00eb zgjidhja, sepse shiko \u00e7far\u00eb ka ndodhur n\u00ebse nuk ke nj\u00eb zgjidhje. Pjesa n\u00eb t\u00eb djatht\u00eb do thoshte, jo, jo, jo, ne duhet t\u00eb aneksojm\u00eb gjith\u00e7ka. N\u00ebse gjith\u00e7ka do t\u00eb jet\u00eb e jona n\u00eb Bregun Per\u00ebndimor ose Samaria, at\u00ebher\u00eb paqja do t\u00eb arrij\u00eb, ose ne do t’i kontrollojm\u00eb territoret.<\/span><\/p>\n

Un\u00eb mendoj se Shteti i Izraelit nuk \u00ebsht\u00eb gati p\u00ebr nj\u00eb strategji t\u00eb re t\u00eb p\u00ebrdit\u00ebsuar, kryesisht sepse p\u00ebr t\u00eb krijuar nj\u00eb traktat paqeje apo \u00e7far\u00ebdo qoft\u00eb me palestinez\u00ebt, duhet t\u00eb kesh nj\u00eb autoritet palestinez q\u00eb ka autoritet. Dhe sot nuk ka asgj\u00eb atje. Abu Mazen nuk po kontrollon as njer\u00ebzit e tij, dhe e b\u00ebn k\u00ebt\u00eb me v\u00ebshtir\u00ebsi. <\/span><\/p>\n

Pse? Sepse ne po ndihmojm\u00eb ta b\u00ebj\u00eb k\u00ebt\u00eb. Kur ai k\u00ebrc\u00ebnon, dhe un\u00eb e kam d\u00ebgjuar at\u00eb shum\u00eb her\u00eb, q\u00eb do shk\u00ebputet nga bashk\u00ebpunimi i siguris\u00eb me Shtetin e Izraelit, un\u00eb i ofrova atij ta b\u00ebnte k\u00ebt\u00eb, por ai nuk do rezistonte as nj\u00eb dit\u00eb n\u00eb zyr\u00eb. Pse? Sepse do hahej i gjall\u00eb nga Hamasi, i cili \u00ebsht\u00eb super i fort\u00eb n\u00eb Bregun Per\u00ebndimor. Pra, kush po lufton Hamasin n\u00eb Bregun Per\u00ebndimor? Ne e b\u00ebjm\u00eb, ndonj\u00ebher\u00eb bashk\u00eb me t\u00eb. Ky \u00ebsht\u00eb nj\u00eb territor palestinez q\u00eb nuk \u00ebsht\u00eb i gjithi i tij ose i gjithi i tyre.<\/span><\/p>\n

Pjesa tjet\u00ebr e Hamasit, ose pjesa tjet\u00ebr e palestinez\u00ebve, jan\u00eb Hamasi dhe Xhihadi Islamik. Ata nuk e pranojn\u00eb ekzistenc\u00ebn ton\u00eb.<\/span><\/p>\n

Mendoni p\u00ebr ndarjen e tyre t\u00eb past\u00ebr. E\u00a0di q\u00eb kemi provuar disa her\u00eb\u00a0p\u00ebr ta hequr qafe, deklaroi p\u00ebrs\u00ebri dhe p\u00ebrs\u00ebri dhe p\u00ebrs\u00ebri, koh\u00ebt e fundit gjithashtu, mund t\u00eb t\u00eb tregoj videon. Ai tha, zgjidhja me dy shtete, n\u00eb asnj\u00eb m\u00ebnyr\u00eb. Zgjidhja me nj\u00eb shtet, shtet palestinez nga lumi n\u00eb det, nga veriu n\u00eb jug. \u00cbsht\u00eb e gjitha e jona. Un\u00eb nuk pranoj ekzistenc\u00ebn e Shtetit t\u00eb Izraelit.<\/span><\/p>\n

Prandaj, ne nuk mund t\u00eb negociojm\u00eb nj\u00eb shtet palestinez. Pra, me k\u00eb duhet t\u00eb negociojm\u00eb? Nuk \u00ebsht\u00eb askush atje. Fatkeq\u00ebsisht p\u00ebr ta.\u00a0Dhe ti e sheh, trysnia nd\u00ebrkomb\u00ebtare, n\u00eb nj\u00eb far\u00eb m\u00ebnyre, \u00ebsht\u00eb qesharake. Kush po na shtyn? Apo le t\u00eb themi se do ket\u00eb nj\u00eb deklarat\u00eb nes\u00ebr. Tani po d\u00ebgjoj se australian\u00ebt dhe kanadez\u00ebt dhe francez\u00ebt, t\u00eb gjith\u00eb do njohin shtetin palestinez.<\/span><\/p>\n

Weiss:<\/span> Francez\u00ebt kan\u00eb folur p\u00ebr ta b\u00ebr\u00eb k\u00ebt\u00eb.<\/span><\/p>\n

Yossi Cohen<\/span>: Ku? Nga kush? Kush do e\u00a0drejtoj\u00eb shtetin? A shihni nj\u00eb qeveri t\u00eb shquar q\u00eb mund ta b\u00ebj\u00eb k\u00ebt\u00eb? A mund t’i shihni ata duke drejtuar afro 2.2 milion\u00eb palestinez\u00eb n\u00eb Rripin e Gaz\u00ebs n\u00ebn ty. A mundesh? Ne ju dham\u00eb t\u00eb gjith\u00eb territorin, 365 kilometra katror\u00eb t\u00eb Gaz\u00ebs, Autoritetit Palestinez. \u00c7far\u00eb kan\u00eb\u00a0b\u00ebr\u00eb me t\u00eb? Asgj\u00eb. Pse? Sepse jeni t\u00eb paaft\u00eb ta b\u00ebjn\u00eb k\u00ebt\u00eb? Pra, kur ata deklarojn\u00eb se do t\u00eb ket\u00eb nj\u00eb shtet palestinez n\u00eb t\u00eb ardhmen, n\u00eb rregull, por nuk ka asgj\u00eb praktike rreth tij. Ju nuk mund t’i p\u00ebrktheni v\u00ebrtet k\u00ebto fjal\u00eb tani n\u00eb veprim.<\/span><\/p>\n

Dhe un\u00eb mendoj se konsensusi ndaj pyetjes suaj, Weiss, n\u00eb Izrael \u00ebsht\u00eb se ne jemi t\u00eb bashkuar n\u00ebn k\u00ebt\u00eb mir\u00ebkuptim, prit dhe v\u00ebzhgo.<\/span><\/p>\n

Weiss:<\/span> Prit dhe v\u00ebzhgo…<\/span><\/p>\n

Yossi Cohen<\/span>: Disa do shtynin p\u00ebr aneksim, disa do e\u00a0kund\u00ebrshtonin k\u00ebt\u00eb. Disa do thoshin, “Le t\u00eb kthehemi n\u00eb Rripin e Gaz\u00ebs.” Disa do e\u00a0kund\u00ebrshtonin k\u00ebt\u00eb. Dhe un\u00eb mendoj se shumica e popullit t\u00eb Izraelit po braktis iden\u00eb e negociatave t\u00eb drejtp\u00ebrdrejta me Autoritetin Palestinez, sepse nuk ka askush atje. Nuk ka ask\u00ebnd me t\u00eb cilin t\u00eb negociohet.<\/span><\/p>\n

\"\"<\/a><\/p>\n

Roli i Katarit<\/b><\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n

Weiss:<\/span> Le t\u00eb flasim p\u00ebr rolin e Katarit vet\u00ebm p\u00ebr nj\u00eb sekond\u00eb. Mund t\u00eb flasim p\u00ebrs\u00ebri p\u00ebr k\u00ebt\u00eb p\u00ebr nj\u00eb koh\u00eb shum\u00eb t\u00eb gjat\u00eb, por mua m\u00eb duket se… shiko, ata strehojn\u00eb Hamasin. Ata e futin Al Jazeera-n n\u00eb sht\u00ebpit\u00eb e miliarda njer\u00ebzve q\u00eb flasin arabisht n\u00eb gjith\u00eb bot\u00ebn dhe kan\u00eb p\u00ebrmbajtje absolutisht t\u00eb tmerrshme q\u00eb radikalizon njer\u00ebzit. Nga ana tjet\u00ebr, Izraeli negocion me Hamasin n\u00ebp\u00ebrmjet Katarit. Amerika ka nj\u00eb nga bazat e saj m\u00eb t\u00eb m\u00ebdha ajrore n\u00eb Katar. Na shpjego, si \u00ebsht\u00eb roli i Katarit? Sepse mendoj se \u00ebsht\u00eb thell\u00ebsisht ngat\u00ebrruese p\u00ebr njer\u00ebzit.<\/span><\/p>\n

Yossi Cohen:<\/span> Absolutisht ngat\u00ebrruese p\u00ebr shkak t\u00eb medias p\u00ebrs\u00ebri dhe p\u00ebr shkak t\u00eb mesazheve t\u00eb p\u00ebrziera q\u00eb po dalin. Nuk e faj\u00ebsoj median. Nuk i faj\u00ebsoj ata q\u00eb jan\u00eb…<\/span><\/p>\n

Weiss:<\/span> Jo, ata po pasqyrojn\u00eb nj\u00eb realitet n\u00eb t\u00eb v\u00ebrtet\u00eb t\u00eb ngat\u00ebrruar.<\/span><\/p>\n

Yossi Cohen<\/span>: Realiteti i ngat\u00ebrruar \u00ebsht\u00eb se Katari p\u00ebr ne \u00ebsht\u00eb nj\u00eb lloj mjeti shum\u00eb aktiv q\u00eb ne po p\u00ebrdorim k\u00ebt\u00eb lloj marr\u00ebdh\u00ebnieje\u00a0q\u00eb kemi zhvilluar me ta deri sot p\u00ebr t\u00eb negociuar ose p\u00ebr t\u00eb nd\u00ebrmjet\u00ebsuar nj\u00eb lloj marr\u00ebveshjeje pengjesh.<\/span><\/p>\n

Mendoj se kur ajo marr\u00ebveshje do p\u00ebrfundoj\u00eb dhe t\u00eb p\u00ebrfundoj\u00eb, me ndihm\u00ebn e Zotit, do duhet t\u00eb diskutojm\u00eb t\u00eb ardhmen e Katarit. Jo vet\u00ebm p\u00ebr Shtetin e Izraelit. Ne nuk kemi ndonj\u00eb marr\u00ebdh\u00ebnie t\u00eb hapur politike ose diplomatike me Katarin. Nuk di as nj\u00eb vend q\u00eb nuk punon me Katarin. Bota po punon me Katarin. Kupa e Bot\u00ebs, ndeshjet e futbollit, \u00e7do gj\u00eb ishte atje. U\u00a0miratua nga bota dhe FIFA, t\u00eb gjitha ato. T\u00eb gjith\u00eb shkuan n\u00eb Katar t\u00eb lumtur. Miliarda dollar\u00eb u derdh\u00ebn n\u00eb k\u00ebto vende. T\u00eb gjith\u00eb krer\u00ebt, president\u00ebt, t\u00eb gjith\u00eb u miratuan nga Katari.<\/span><\/p>\n

“Ejani punoni me ne.”<\/span><\/p>\n

Dhe papritmas, Katari \u00ebsht\u00eb delja e zez\u00eb e lagjes. Dhe Al Jazeera nuk \u00ebsht\u00eb e re. Asgj\u00eb nga kjo nuk \u00ebsht\u00eb e re. E vetmja gj\u00eb q\u00eb duhet t\u00eb llogarisim pas luft\u00ebs \u00ebsht\u00eb n\u00eb an\u00ebn izraelite: \u00c7far\u00eb duam t\u00eb b\u00ebjm\u00eb me ta? A mund t\u00eb punojm\u00eb me ta?<\/span><\/p>\n

Katari nuk \u00ebsht\u00eb shum\u00eb i ndrysh\u00ebm nga Turqia sot. Retorika q\u00eb po p\u00ebrdor presidenti i Turqis\u00eb \u00ebsht\u00eb edhe m\u00eb e keqe se ajo q\u00eb amerikan\u00ebt…<\/span><\/p>\n

Weiss:<\/span> Gjenocidale.<\/span><\/p>\n

Yossi Cohen<\/span>: Jo vet\u00ebm gjenocidale. Dua t\u00eb them, ai e krahason Bibi Netanyahu-n, kryeministrin ton\u00eb, me Hitlerin hapur, dhe ai nuk duket se mban p\u00ebrgjegj\u00ebsi p\u00ebr fjal\u00ebt e tij.\u00a0Bota nuk po shkon kund\u00ebr Erdoganit dhe t\u2019i thot\u00eb, “Oh, e di \u00e7far\u00eb, tani do t\u00eb t\u00eb p\u00ebrjashtojm\u00eb nga NATO-ja p\u00ebr shkak t\u00eb k\u00ebsaj gjuhe q\u00eb po p\u00ebrdor.”<\/span><\/p>\n

Pra, bota \u00ebsht\u00eb m\u00eb pak\u00a0vend i sofistikuar nga sa duket, dhe un\u00eb e di k\u00ebt\u00eb. Un\u00eb kam qen\u00eb pjes\u00eb e k\u00ebtyre v\u00ebshtir\u00ebsive p\u00ebr t\u00eb drejtuar ekuacione q\u00eb do duken shum\u00eb t\u00eb v\u00ebshtira. Nga nj\u00ebra an\u00eb, ke Al Jazeera-n. Nga ana tjet\u00ebr, m\u00eb duhen ata p\u00ebr t\u00eb ndihmuar popullin e Gaz\u00ebs. Nga nj\u00ebra an\u00eb, e di q\u00eb ata po dhurojn\u00eb para p\u00ebr organizat\u00ebn\u00a0Hamas. Nga ana tjet\u00ebr, ata do presin Olimpiad\u00ebn, ose Kup\u00ebn e Bot\u00ebs. Si e drejton k\u00ebt\u00eb? \u00c7far\u00eb b\u00ebn?<\/span><\/p>\n

E vetmja gj\u00eb q\u00eb po b\u00ebj, n\u00eb aspektin e t\u00eb qenit formalisht izraelit, ajo q\u00eb b\u00ebra, jo ajo q\u00eb po b\u00ebj, por b\u00ebra n\u00eb t\u00eb kaluar\u00ebn, \u00ebsht\u00eb se ne i p\u00ebrdorim ata ose i l\u00ebm\u00eb ata t\u00eb din\u00eb cilat jan\u00eb nevojat izraelite, kryesisht n\u00eb Rripin e Gaz\u00ebs, n\u00eb m\u00ebnyr\u00eb q\u00eb ata t\u00eb mund t\u00eb na ndihmojn\u00eb ta b\u00ebjm\u00eb k\u00ebt\u00eb. Kjo ishte politika jon\u00eb, meq\u00eb ra fjala, deri sot. Kurr\u00eb nuk kam d\u00ebgjuar Qeverin\u00eb e Izraelit t\u00eb deklaroj\u00eb se Katari \u00ebsht\u00eb nj\u00eb vend armik p\u00ebr ne. Nuk \u00ebsht\u00eb.<\/span><\/p>\n

Meq\u00eb ra fjala, izraelit\u00ebt po punojn\u00eb n\u00eb Katar. Izraeli po shet zyrtarisht arm\u00eb n\u00eb Katar, arm\u00eb mbrojt\u00ebse n\u00eb Katar. Elementet ose kompanit\u00eb e siguris\u00eb kibernetike po punojn\u00eb n\u00eb vend. Ne e dim\u00eb k\u00ebt\u00eb. Dhe ti thua, “Pra, \u00e7far\u00eb \u00ebsht\u00eb kjo sjellje skizofrenike?”\u00c7far\u00eb \u00ebsht\u00eb? \u00cbsht\u00eb sofistikimi i realitetit, sepse realiteti nuk \u00ebsht\u00eb bardh e zi.<\/span><\/p>\n

Katari na d\u00ebgjoi me kujdes kur donim q\u00eb ata t\u00eb ndihmonin popullin e Gaz\u00ebs.\u00a0Un\u00eb jam faj\u00ebsuar ose kryq\u00ebzuar n\u00eb vendin tim p\u00ebr shkak se kam qen\u00eb pjes\u00eb e delegat\u00ebve ose delegacionit q\u00eb kan\u00eb udh\u00ebhequr k\u00ebt\u00eb lloj operacionesh. Ne v\u00ebrtet donim q\u00eb populli i Gaz\u00ebs t\u00eb ishte m\u00eb mir\u00eb. Ndihma e SHBA-s\u00eb ishte gjithashtu n\u00eb Rripin e Gaz\u00ebs. Ndihma turke ishte atje gjithashtu, dhe norvegjez\u00ebt dhe evropian\u00ebt. N\u00eb t\u00eb gjith\u00eb Evrop\u00ebn, dhe donator\u00ebt, t\u00eb gjith\u00eb po ndihmonin popullin e Gaz\u00ebs. P\u00ebr t’u siguruar q\u00eb populli i Gaz\u00ebs jeton si\u00e7 duhet, pasi jan\u00eb pushtuar nga organizata, nga Hamasi. Pra, ky \u00ebsht\u00eb Katari p\u00ebr ne sot. Ndoshta pas luft\u00ebs do duhet t\u00eb rillogaritim.<\/span><\/p>\n

Weiss:<\/span> Je optimist p\u00ebr at\u00eb ku mund t\u00eb jet\u00eb Katari nj\u00eb dekad\u00eb nga tani?<\/span><\/p>\n

Yossi Cohen<\/span>: Shum\u00eb optimist.<\/span><\/p>\n

Weiss:<\/span> Je?<\/span><\/p>\n

Yossi Cohen<\/span>: Po.<\/span><\/p>\n

Weiss:<\/span> Po aq optimist sa je p\u00ebr saudit\u00ebt?<\/span><\/p>\n

Yossi Cohen<\/span>: Varet edhe nga sjellja e tyre. Por, e di, un\u00eb e kujtoj koh\u00ebn q\u00eb Katari u bojkotua nga fqinj\u00ebt e tij jo shum\u00eb koh\u00eb m\u00eb par\u00eb. N\u00eb rregull. Ishte\u00a0nj\u00ebsoj\u00a0sikur\u00a0Katari ishte i rrethuar. N\u00eb rregull. Asnj\u00eb fluturim brenda. Asnj\u00eb fluturim jasht\u00eb. Anijet nuk mund ta b\u00ebnin k\u00ebt\u00eb. M\u00ebnyra e vetme q\u00eb Katari mori furnizime, a e kujton at\u00eb koh\u00eb q\u00eb ishte si tre vite m\u00eb par\u00eb?<\/span><\/p>\n

Weiss:<\/span> Po, sepse kemi b\u00ebr\u00eb nj\u00eb artikull t\u00eb gjat\u00eb p\u00ebr Katarin.<\/span><\/p>\n

Yossi Cohen<\/span>: M\u00ebnyra e vetme p\u00ebr t\u00eb furnizuar Katarin\u00a0me ushqim ishte nga Turqia posht\u00eb n\u00eb Iran, dhe pastaj duke kaluar uj\u00ebrat me anije n\u00eb portet e Katarit. T\u00eb gjitha t\u00eb tjerat ishin…ne nuk mund t\u00eb fluturonim mbi Katar. Vendi ishte n\u00ebn rrethim nga fqinj\u00ebt dhe miqt\u00eb e tij, dhe ata jan\u00eb p\u00ebrs\u00ebri n\u00eb marr\u00ebdh\u00ebnie\u00a0me nj\u00ebri-tjetrin\u00a0sot.<\/span><\/p>\n

Pra, kur sheh\u00a0konferenc\u00ebn befasuese ose jo n\u00eb Doha tre\u00a0dit\u00eb m\u00eb par\u00eb, t\u00eb diel\u00ebn pes\u00eb\u00a0dit\u00eb m\u00eb par\u00eb, t\u00eb gjith\u00eb lider\u00ebt mysliman\u00eb nga bota po vijn\u00eb. Jo vet\u00ebm arab\u00eb. Nuk \u00ebsht\u00eb vet\u00ebm Konferenca e Vendeve t\u00eb Gjirit. Nuk \u00ebsht\u00eb vet\u00ebm Lidhja Arabe. T\u00eb gjith\u00eb ishin atje, p\u00ebrfshir\u00eb presidentin iranian. T\u00eb gjith\u00eb po vijn\u00eb\u00a0p\u00ebr t\u00eb mb\u00ebshtetur Katarin. Pra, kombet po ndryshojn\u00eb politik\u00ebn e tyre sipas nevojave t\u00eb tyre. Izraeli do e\u00a0b\u00ebj\u00eb k\u00ebt\u00eb n\u00eb t\u00eb nj\u00ebjt\u00ebn m\u00ebnyr\u00eb.<\/span><\/p>\n

E <\/b><\/strong>a<\/b><\/strong>rdhmja e Lindjes s\u00eb Mesme<\/b><\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n

Weiss:<\/span> Un\u00eb mendoj se nj\u00eb nga gj\u00ebrat q\u00eb \u00ebsht\u00eb disi e pabesueshme, n\u00ebse mendon p\u00ebr karrier\u00ebn t\u00ebnde, n\u00ebse mendon p\u00ebr 30 vitet e fundit, \u00ebsht\u00eb se Lindja e Mesme n\u00eb t\u00eb cil\u00ebn ti po operoje, si drejtor i Mossad-it, me Asadin n\u00eb Siri, me Hezbollahun dominant n\u00eb Libanin jugor, me p\u00ebrfaq\u00ebsuesit e Iranit, Saddam Husseinin kudo…<\/span><\/p>\n

Yossi Cohen<\/span>: Saddam Hussein, \u00ebsht\u00eb krejt ndryshe. \u00cbsht\u00eb e\u00a0gjitha e rr\u00ebzuar.<\/span><\/p>\n

Weiss:<\/span> Ku do jet\u00eb rajoni…Ka shum\u00eb gj\u00ebra p\u00ebr t\u00eb t\u00eb pyetur p\u00ebr k\u00ebt\u00eb, k\u00ebshtu q\u00eb thjesht do t\u00eb t\u00eb pyes: A je i lumtur p\u00ebr drejtimin e gj\u00ebrave dhe ku mendon se do jen\u00eb gj\u00ebrat nj\u00eb dekad\u00eb nga tani?<\/span><\/p>\n

Yossi Cohen<\/span>: Un\u00eb jam shum\u00eb i lumtur me drejtimin q\u00eb po marrin gj\u00ebrat tani.<\/span><\/p>\n

S\u00eb pari, do t\u00eb filloj\u00a0me Amerik\u00ebn. Prania amerikane n\u00eb Lindjen e Mesme \u00ebsht\u00eb\u00a0tejet e fort\u00eb k\u00ebto dit\u00eb, dhe kjo \u00ebsht\u00eb shum\u00eb ndihmuese. E vetmja gj\u00eb q\u00eb mungonte n\u00eb Lindjen e Mesme, \u00ebsht\u00eb se Amerika\u00a0ishte munges\u00eb. Ti nuk e ndjeje kapacitetin amerikan. Tani jan\u00eb kthyer, jo vet\u00ebm n\u00eb Irak, por kudo. Negociator\u00ebt po udh\u00ebtojn\u00eb p\u00ebr n\u00eb Beirut. Negociator\u00ebt po shkojn\u00eb n\u00eb Arabin\u00eb Saudite. Negociator\u00ebt po ftojn\u00eb delegacionin e Putinit n\u00eb Riad p\u00ebr t\u00eb negociuar t\u00eb ardhmen, marr\u00ebveshjen ukrainase-ruse, dhe m\u00eb shum\u00eb se kaq. Kjo \u00ebsht\u00eb numri nj\u00eb.<\/span><\/p>\n

Numri dy \u00ebsht\u00eb se mendoj se kur Irani filloi t\u00eb pushtonte Lindjen e Mesme pak nga pak, duke kaluar n\u00ebp\u00ebr Irak, pastaj n\u00eb Siri s\u00eb bashku me Asadin, si\u00e7 e ke p\u00ebrmendur, dhe pastaj te Hassan Nasrallah n\u00eb Beirut, dhe pastaj posht\u00eb te Hamasi n\u00eb Gaza, n\u00eb an\u00ebn tjet\u00ebr, te Huthit e Jemenit, kjo do ndryshoj\u00eb \u00a0p\u00ebrfundimisht. Ne kemi ndryshuar n\u00eb m\u00ebnyr\u00eb dramatike hart\u00ebn strategjike t\u00eb Lindjes s\u00eb Mesme.<\/span><\/p>\n

Absolutisht.<\/span><\/p>\n

Perspektiva <\/b><\/strong>r<\/b><\/strong>ajonale: Fundi i <\/b><\/strong>e<\/b><\/strong>pok\u00ebs s\u00eb <\/b><\/strong>v<\/b><\/strong>jet\u00ebr<\/b><\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n

Yossi Cohen<\/span>:<\/span> Hamasi nuk ka mbaruar, Hezbullahu nuk ka mbaruar, ushtria siriane ka mbaruar plot\u00ebsisht. Iraku \u00ebsht\u00eb n\u00ebn kontroll. Jam i lumtur q\u00eb jemi aty. Kjo ishte k\u00ebrkesa e vetme q\u00eb kisha p\u00ebr presidentin Biden n\u00eb dit\u00ebt e mia t\u00eb fundit n\u00eb krye t\u00eb Mossad-it. I thash\u00eb, “Mos u largoni nga Iraku, thjesht mos\u00a0ikni.\u00a0Dhe p\u00ebr fat t\u00eb mir\u00eb jan\u00eb atje. E di q\u00eb ka disa veprime t\u00eb tjera, ose disa l\u00ebvizje q\u00eb ndoshta do duan t\u00eb largoheni nga Iraku. Un\u00eb sugjeroj t\u00eb q\u00ebndroni atje.<\/span><\/p>\n

Dhe Irani, p\u00ebrfundimisht ne i kemi shkat\u00ebrruar kapacitetet e tyre b\u00ebrthamore, jo n\u00eb zero, por kapaciteti i pasurimit deri tani \u00ebsht\u00eb shkat\u00ebrruar. Jam shum\u00eb i lumtur p\u00ebr k\u00ebt\u00eb.<\/span><\/p>\n

Pra, ne kemi filluar…Asgj\u00eb nuk ishte planifikuar, si\u00e7 thash\u00eb, asnj\u00eb strategji. Ne nuk kishim nj\u00eb strategji, strategji bot\u00ebrore, \u00a0q\u00eb ti thua, “N\u00eb rregull, kemi Hamasin, pastaj kemi Hezbullahun, pastaj kemi Sirin\u00eb, pastaj kemi Irakun, pastaj kemi Iranin. Pse nuk e b\u00ebjm\u00eb at\u00eb si\u00e7 b\u00ebm\u00eb koh\u00ebt e fundit?” Pra, kjo nuk ishte planifikuar, por po ndodh.<\/span><\/p>\n

K\u00ebshtu q\u00eb, un\u00eb v\u00ebrtet besoj se n\u00eb fund t\u00eb luft\u00ebs, s\u00eb pari, shteti i Izraelit do jet\u00eb n\u00eb nj\u00eb pozicion shum\u00eb m\u00eb t\u00eb sigurt sesa ishte n\u00eb t\u00eb kaluar\u00ebn. Dhe kjo potencialisht do \u00e7oj\u00eb n\u00eb negociata t\u00eb traktateve t\u00eb paqes m\u00eb t\u00eb mira sesa ka qen\u00eb ndonj\u00ebher\u00eb n\u00eb t\u00eb kaluar\u00ebn.<\/span><\/p>\n

Tani, madje edhe sot, Al-Julani\u00a0nga Siria, deklaroi se po negocion me izraelit\u00ebt p\u00ebr nj\u00eb lloj marr\u00ebveshjeje midis nesh dhe atyre, dhe kjo \u00ebsht\u00eb e mrekullueshme. Nuk e di n\u00ebse ai \u00ebsht\u00eb djali i mrekulluesh\u00ebm me t\u00eb cilin mund t\u00eb merremi. Nj\u00eb ish-an\u00ebtar i Al Kaedas\u00a0dhe t\u00eb gjitha ato. Por ai mund\u00a0t\u00eb b\u00ebj\u00eb di\u00e7ka t\u00eb mir\u00eb p\u00ebr hir t\u00eb popullit sirian q\u00eb ka pasur nj\u00eb luft\u00eb vdekjeprur\u00ebse, dhe p\u00ebr hir t\u00eb siguris\u00eb s\u00eb Shtetit t\u00eb Izraelit gjithashtu. K\u00ebshtu q\u00eb, po, dua t\u00eb them, jam optimist dhe mendoj se ndryshimet me t\u00eb cilat po p\u00ebrballemi tani mund t\u00eb jen\u00eb dramatikisht t\u00eb mira p\u00ebr popullin e Lindjes s\u00eb Mesme.<\/span><\/p>\n

\"\"<\/a><\/p>\n

Shqet\u00ebsimet p\u00ebr <\/b><\/strong>m<\/b><\/strong>arr\u00ebdh\u00ebnien Izrael-SHBA<\/b><\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n

Weiss:<\/span> Un\u00eb do e\u00a0teproj\u00a0por kjo \u00ebsht\u00eb nj\u00eb gj\u00eb p\u00ebr t\u00eb cil\u00ebn mendoj se shum\u00eb njer\u00ebz n\u00eb k\u00ebt\u00eb vend q\u00eb kujdesen p\u00ebr marr\u00ebdh\u00ebnien Amerik\u00eb-Izrael jan\u00eb t\u00eb shqet\u00ebsuar. Dhe ajo q\u00eb do thon\u00eb \u00ebsht\u00eb se ka nj\u00eb shans q\u00eb Donald Trump t\u00eb jet\u00eb presidenti i fundit pro-Izrael. Dhe ajo q\u00eb n\u00ebnkuptojn\u00eb me k\u00ebt\u00eb nuk \u00ebsht\u00eb se do ket\u00eb nj\u00eb president domosdoshm\u00ebrisht anti-sionist n\u00eb vitin 2028 ose zgjedhjet pasuese\u00a0dhe se amerikan\u00ebt e brezit t\u00eb ri jan\u00eb kthyer thell\u00ebsisht kund\u00ebr Izraelit. <\/span><\/p>\n

Ishte ky studim i Pe\u00eb\u00a0q\u00eb doli vitin e kaluar. 14% e t\u00eb rriturve amerikan\u00eb n\u00ebn 30 vje\u00e7 thon\u00eb se\u00a0e\u00a0simpatizojn\u00eb me Izraelin. \u00c7far\u00eb po b\u00ebn Izraeli p\u00ebr k\u00ebt\u00eb? Sepse Izraeli p\u00eblqen t\u00eb flas\u00eb se ka nj\u00eb problem PR-i. Dhe un\u00eb pyes veten n\u00ebse kjo \u00ebsht\u00eb ajo q\u00eb f\u00ebmij\u00ebt k\u00ebto dit\u00eb e quajn\u00eb nj\u00eb strategji p\u00ebr t’u p\u00ebrballur.<\/span><\/p>\n

Yossi Cohen<\/span>: S\u00eb pari, dua t\u00eb them, mendoj se \u00ebsht\u00eb nj\u00eb drejtim i keq. \u00cbsht\u00eb nj\u00eb drejtim shum\u00eb i keq. Mendoj se Shteti i Izraelit ka nevoj\u00eb p\u00ebr Amerik\u00ebn, dhe ne kemi nevoj\u00eb p\u00ebr Amerik\u00ebn t\u00eb fort\u00eb, dhe ne kemi nevoj\u00eb p\u00ebr Amerik\u00ebn pran\u00eb nesh dhe n\u00eb an\u00ebn ton\u00eb. Dhe kjo \u00ebsht\u00eb di\u00e7ka q\u00eb duhet punuar p\u00ebrfundimisht.\u00a0Drejtimet q\u00eb ne p\u00eblqejm\u00eb m\u00eb shum\u00eb k\u00ebt\u00eb parti apo partin\u00eb tjet\u00ebr jan\u00eb t\u00eb gabuara. Dhe mendoj se kjo u ushtrua nga kryeministri.<\/span><\/p>\n

Weiss:<\/span> Si u b\u00eb Izraeli nj\u00eb \u00e7\u00ebshtje partiake?<\/span><\/p>\n

Yossi Cohen<\/span>: Pik\u00ebrisht, dhe nga brenda. Un\u00eb jam dypartiak. E kam th\u00ebn\u00eb mij\u00ebra her\u00eb, homolog\u00ebve t\u00eb mi n\u00eb Amerik\u00eb, homolog\u00ebve t\u00eb mi n\u00eb Izrael, popullit t\u00eb Izraelit dhe popullit t\u00eb Amerik\u00ebs gjithashtu. Un\u00eb i p\u00eblqej amerikan\u00ebt, \u00e7far\u00ebdo qofshin. Un\u00eb e p\u00eblqej Amerik\u00ebn dhe e p\u00eblqej presidentin tuaj, kushdo qoft\u00eb. Ka mosmarr\u00ebveshje, midis nj\u00eb presidenti dhe tjetrit, por sidoqoft\u00eb, mendoj se kjo \u00ebsht\u00eb di\u00e7ka q\u00eb duhet punuar. Un\u00eb mendoj se duhet t\u00eb ushtrojm\u00eb nj\u00eb marr\u00ebdh\u00ebnie shum\u00eb m\u00eb t\u00eb mir\u00eb midis Izraelit dhe Amerik\u00ebs. Un\u00eb mendoj se duhet t\u00eb thuhet hapur se ne e p\u00eblqejm\u00eb dhe kemi nevoj\u00eb p\u00ebr Amerik\u00ebn.<\/span><\/p>\n

Meq\u00eb ra fjala, kjo ishte biseda ime e fundit deri m\u00eb tani me presidentin Biden n\u00eb Sht\u00ebpin\u00eb e Bardh\u00eb, kur ai m\u00eb ftoi kur isha ende shef i Mossad-it, dhe ai tha, “N\u00eb rregull, Yosi, pas nj\u00eb diskutimi t\u00eb gjat\u00eb, ai tha, “N\u00eb rregull, pra kemi disa mosmarr\u00ebveshje.” Un\u00eb\u00a0i\u00a0thash\u00eb, “N\u00eb rregull, Z. President. Por kjo \u00ebsht\u00eb nj\u00eb gj\u00eb q\u00eb dua t’ju them: Ne kemi nevoj\u00eb p\u00ebr ju.” Ne kemi nevoj\u00eb p\u00ebr ju. Mb\u00ebshtetja q\u00eb Amerika i ofron Shtetit t\u00eb Izraelit \u00ebsht\u00eb thelb\u00ebsore. Ne kemi nevoj\u00eb p\u00ebr ju. Jo vet\u00ebm p\u00ebr shkak t\u00eb marr\u00ebveshjes prej 41 miliard\u00eb dollar\u00ebsh dhe t\u00eb gjitha ato.<\/span><\/p>\n

Weiss:<\/span> Por a \u00ebsht\u00eb Izraeli i p\u00ebrgatitur p\u00ebr nj\u00eb bot\u00eb n\u00eb t\u00eb cil\u00ebn nuk mund t\u00eb mb\u00ebshtetet tek Amerika?<\/span><\/p>\n

Yossi Cohen<\/span>: Natyrisht q\u00eb jo. Ne nuk jemi t\u00eb p\u00ebrgatitur p\u00ebr k\u00ebt\u00eb. Askush nuk na ka ndihmuar deri tani. Jemi n\u00eb rregull me ushtrin\u00eb, me aeroplan\u00ebt\u00a0F-35\u00a0dhe F-16-t\u00eb dhe raketat e drejtuara me precizion. Ne sulmuam s\u00eb bashku Iranin, i cili \u00ebsht\u00eb\u2026un\u00eb mendoj se ju iu referuat nj\u00eb her\u00eb se ekziston nj\u00eb kancer\u00a0n\u00eb faz\u00ebn nj\u00eb dhe ju that\u00eb se jemi me fat q\u00eb nuk kemi kancer n\u00eb faz\u00ebn kat\u00ebr terminal n\u00eb at\u00eb q\u00eb po ndodh k\u00ebtu n\u00eb SHBA, apo jo?<\/span><\/p>\n

Weiss:<\/span> A e ke fjal\u00ebn p\u00ebr anti-semitizmin?<\/span><\/p>\n

Yossi Cohen: Pik\u00ebrisht. Dhe un\u00eb mendoj se n\u00eb Iran ne…<\/span><\/p>\n

Weiss:<\/span> Kur thash\u00eb k\u00ebt\u00eb, mendoj se ishim n\u00eb nj\u00eb faz\u00eb tjet\u00ebr. Mendoj se \u00ebsht\u00eb b\u00ebr\u00eb shum\u00eb m\u00eb keq se kurdoher\u00eb kur e thash\u00eb.<\/span><\/p>\n

Yossi Cohen<\/span>: Un\u00eb mendoj se ti\u00a0e\u00a0b\u00ebre k\u00ebrkimin t\u00ebnd.<\/span><\/p>\n

Weiss:<\/span> Faleminderit, Yosi. Po. Por un\u00eb po them se ishte n\u00eb\u00a0vitin\u00a02019, apo jo? Shum\u00eb ka ndodhur q\u00eb at\u00ebher\u00eb.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

Yossi Cohen<\/span>: Mendoj se \u00ebsht\u00eb nj\u00eb detyr\u00eb e p\u00ebrbashk\u00ebt, p\u00ebr popullin amerikan dhe p\u00ebr izraelit\u00ebt, t\u00eb kombinojn\u00eb di\u00e7ka, ndoshta nj\u00eb forc\u00eb, nuk e di \u00e7far\u00eb do ishte, n\u00eb t\u00eb cil\u00ebn jam i gatsh\u00ebm t\u00eb marr pjes\u00eb, p\u00ebr t’u siguruar q\u00eb t\u00eb rinjt\u00eb\u00a0tan\u00eb t\u00eb d\u00ebgjojn\u00eb p\u00ebr anti-semitizimin.\u00a0Duhet t\u00eb shkojm\u00eb n\u00eb kolegje. N\u00eb kolegjet m\u00eb t\u00eb v\u00ebshtira. Ata q\u00eb kan\u00eb th\u00ebn\u00eb se varet nga sekuenca ose varet nga \u00e7\u00ebshtja q\u00eb ju mund t\u00eb jeni nj\u00eb anti-semit. Anti-semitizmi p\u00ebrfundimisht mund t\u00eb rritet brenda kampuseve sepse ata kan\u00eb t\u00eb drejt\u00eb ta b\u00ebjn\u00eb k\u00ebt\u00eb, apo jo? <\/span><\/p>\n

Ndodhi n\u00eb Harvard, n\u00eb Columbia, n\u00eb k\u00ebto vende t\u00eb v\u00ebshtira.\u00a0Mendoj se po humbasim mendimin absolutisht t\u00eb mir\u00eb ose opinionin pozitiv p\u00ebr Shtetin e Izraelit. Por ne mund t\u00eb punojm\u00eb p\u00ebr k\u00ebt\u00eb. Gjith\u00e7ka ka t\u00eb b\u00ebj\u00eb me pun\u00ebn ton\u00eb p\u00ebr k\u00ebt\u00eb. Un\u00eb mendoj se \u00ebsht\u00eb m\u00eb e r\u00ebnd\u00ebsishme se kurr\u00eb ta b\u00ebjm\u00eb k\u00ebt\u00eb. Kjo \u00ebsht\u00eb gj\u00ebja q\u00eb duhet t\u00eb sigurohemi ta kemi, sepse ne kemi nevoj\u00eb p\u00ebr\u00a0Amerik\u00ebn\u00a0Si\u00e7 i thash\u00eb presidentit amerikan, po ta\u00a0them ty, Weiss, ne kemi nevoj\u00eb p\u00ebr ty.<\/span><\/p>\n

E <\/b><\/strong>a<\/b><\/strong>rdhmja <\/b><\/strong>p<\/b><\/strong>olitike<\/b><\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n

Weiss:<\/span> Ke folur p\u00ebr at\u00eb se si do kandidosh p\u00ebr postin e kryeministrit. A do e\u00a0b\u00ebsh k\u00ebt\u00eb?<\/span><\/p>\n

Yossi Cohen<\/span>: Nuk do e b\u00ebj k\u00ebt\u00eb tani. Nuk mund t\u00eb them q\u00eb nuk do e\u00a0b\u00ebj kurr\u00eb.<\/span><\/p>\n

Weiss:<\/span> Ke th\u00ebn\u00eb… Ajo q\u00eb the disa jav\u00eb m\u00eb par\u00eb \u00ebsht\u00eb: “P\u00ebr t\u00eb ndodhur nj\u00eb ndryshim i v\u00ebrtet\u00eb, un\u00eb duhet t\u00eb jem kryeminist\u00ebr.” Kjo \u00ebsht\u00eb shum\u00eb af\u00ebr nj\u00eb deklarate se\u00a0ti po kandidon p\u00ebr kryeminist\u00ebr.<\/span><\/p>\n

Yossi Cohen<\/span>:<\/span> Jo, nuk jam. Un\u00eb do p\u00ebrpiqem ta b\u00ebj k\u00ebt\u00eb n\u00eb nj\u00eb version shum\u00eb modest timin. Por, p\u00ebr ta p\u00ebrmbledhur k\u00ebt\u00eb diskutim, mendoj se Shteti i Izraelit ka nevoj\u00eb p\u00ebr nj\u00eb ndryshim. Dhe mendoj se lider\u00ebt aktual\u00eb q\u00eb shoh n\u00eb hart\u00ebn politike nuk jan\u00eb n\u00eb nj\u00eb pozicion p\u00ebr t\u00eb sjell\u00eb nj\u00eb ndryshim. Sepse ajo q\u00eb po k\u00ebrkojm\u00eb \u00ebsht\u00eb uniteti. Ajo q\u00eb po k\u00ebrkojm\u00eb \u00ebsht\u00eb t\u00eb punojm\u00eb s\u00eb bashku, ne t\u00eb gjith\u00eb izraelit\u00ebt drejt nj\u00eb objektivi. Duhet t\u2019i l\u00ebm\u00eb m\u00ebnjan\u00eb konfliktet q\u00eb kishim n\u00eb t\u00eb kaluar\u00ebn, si\u00e7 e diskutuam: zgjidhja me dy shtete, jo zgjidhja me dy shtete, aneksimi kund\u00ebr k\u00ebtij, ky kund\u00ebr k\u00ebtij.<\/span><\/p>\n

K\u00ebshtu q\u00eb, mendoj se\u00a0si\u00e7\u00a0e\u00a0thash\u00eb n\u00eb median izraelite, thash\u00eb se p\u00ebrb\u00ebr\u00ebsi q\u00eb un\u00eb mund t’i ofroj p\u00ebrfundimisht Shtetit t\u00eb Izraelit \u00ebsht\u00eb di\u00e7ka q\u00eb \u00ebsht\u00eb af\u00ebr nj\u00eb bashkimi absolut t\u00eb vendit n\u00eb t\u00eb gjitha k\u00ebndet e tij. T\u00eb gjith\u00eb.\u00a0Dhe pastaj duhet t\u00eb jet\u00eb nj\u00eb kryeminist\u00ebr q\u00eb ta b\u00ebj\u00eb k\u00ebt\u00eb. Por un\u00eb nuk do t\u00eb kandidoj tani p\u00ebr tani.<\/span><\/p>\n

Weiss:<\/span> Nuk jam e\u00a0sigurt sa vite\u00a0m\u00eb pas. Nuk do i hyj bised\u00ebs politike, por mund t\u00eb kandidosh.<\/span><\/p>\n

Yossi Cohen<\/span>: Mund t\u00eb kandidoj,\u00a0dikur n\u00eb t\u00eb ardhmen. Kur t\u00eb jem i pjekur.<\/span><\/p>\n

Raundi pyetje-p\u00ebrgjigje<\/b><\/strong>
\n<\/b><\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n

Weiss:<\/span> N\u00eb rregull. Do t\u00eb b\u00ebjm\u00eb nj\u00eb raund t\u00eb shpejt\u00eb rrufe. <\/span>A ishte Jeffrey Epstein i Mossad-it?<\/span><\/p>\n

Yossi Cohen<\/span>: Jo.<\/span><\/p>\n

Weiss:<\/span> As agjent, as\u00a0operativ, asgj\u00eb?<\/span><\/p>\n

Yossi Cohen<\/span>: Asgj\u00eb.<\/span><\/p>\n

Weiss:<\/span> Pse njer\u00ebzit besojn\u00eb se ishte?<\/span><\/p>\n

Yossi Cohen<\/span>: Njer\u00ebzit besojn\u00eb se Mossad-i ka krijuar tsunamin. Njer\u00ebzit besojn\u00eb, q\u00eb ne kemi qen\u00eb pas vrasjes s\u00eb Charlie Kirk-ut. E gabuar. Ne nuk e b\u00ebjm\u00eb k\u00ebt\u00eb. Kurr\u00eb nuk do e\u00a0b\u00ebjm\u00eb. Kurr\u00eb nuk e kemi b\u00ebr\u00eb.<\/span><\/p>\n

Weiss:<\/span> Nj\u00eb fjal\u00eb p\u00ebr njer\u00ebzit n\u00eb vijim. Barack Obama.<\/span><\/p>\n

Yossi Cohen<\/span>: President interesant.<\/span><\/p>\n

Weiss:<\/span> Joe Biden.<\/span><\/p>\n

Yossi Cohen<\/span>: Nj\u00eb tjet\u00ebr president interesant.<\/span><\/p>\n

Weiss:<\/span> Donald Trump.<\/span><\/p>\n

Yossi Cohen<\/span>: President super interesant.<\/span><\/p>\n

Weiss:<\/span> JD Vance.<\/span><\/p>\n

Yossi Cohen<\/span>: Z\u00ebvend\u00ebspresident i mir\u00eb.<\/span><\/p>\n

Weiss:<\/span> Steve Witkoff.<\/span><\/p>\n

Yossi Cohen<\/span>: Negociator i mrekulluesh\u00ebm.<\/span><\/p>\n

Weiss:<\/span> Cila \u00ebsht\u00eb gj\u00ebja q\u00eb besojn\u00eb shumica e njer\u00ebzve p\u00ebr Mossad-in,\u00a0q\u00eb nuk \u00ebsht\u00eb e v\u00ebrtet\u00eb?<\/span><\/p>\n

Yossi Cohen:<\/span> Gjith\u00e7ka \u00ebsht\u00eb e sakt\u00eb.<\/span><\/p>\n

Weiss:<\/span> Kam par\u00eb kaq shum\u00eb filma rreth spiunazhit izraelit: The Iron, Fauda, Munich, The Dead, Home. A \u00ebsht\u00eb ndonj\u00ebri prej tyre i v\u00ebrtet\u00eb? Dhe a i ke par\u00eb ndonj\u00eb prej tyre?<\/span><\/p>\n

Yossi Cohen<\/span>: I kam par\u00eb t\u00eb gjith\u00eb.<\/span><\/p>\n

Weiss:<\/span> I keni par\u00eb t\u00eb gjith\u00eb?<\/span><\/p>\n

Yossi Cohen<\/span>: Oh, po. Sigurisht. M\u00eb p\u00eblqejn\u00eb.<\/span><\/p>\n

Weiss:<\/span> Cili \u00ebsht\u00eb i preferuari yt?<\/span><\/p>\n

Yossi Cohen<\/span>: P\u00ebr shkak se \u00ebsht\u00eb fantashkenc\u00eb, m\u00eb p\u00eblqen t\u00eb shikoj fantashkenc\u00eb. Cili \u00ebsht\u00eb i preferuari im? Mendoj se do ishte seriali francez\u00a0\u00a0The Bureau (Le Bureau des L\u00e9gendes). Nuk jam i sigurt n\u00ebse e ke par\u00eb. \u00ebsht\u00eb nj\u00eb serial i mir\u00eb. Meq\u00eb ra fjala, Mossad-i \u00ebsht\u00eb n\u00eb t\u00eb, natyrisht. Dua t\u00eb them, ne po ndihmojm\u00eb\u00a0duke shp\u00ebtuar operativ\u00ebt\u00a0francez\u00eb nga kapja atje ku zhvilloheshin ngjarjes n\u00eb serial\u2026Teheran apo Baku. Por ai \u00ebsht\u00eb nj\u00eb\u00a0serial\u00a0shum\u00eb i mir\u00eb.<\/span><\/p>\n

Weiss:<\/span> Kryeministri m\u00eb i mir\u00eb izraelit n\u00eb historin\u00eb e shtetit.<\/span><\/p>\n

Yossi Cohen<\/span>: Interesante.<\/span><\/p>\n

Weiss<\/span>: M\u00eb i keqi?<\/span><\/p>\n

Yossi Cohen<\/span>: Nuk mund ta them.<\/span><\/p>\n

Weiss:<\/span> Agjencia m\u00eb e mir\u00eb e inteligjenc\u00ebs s\u00eb huaj q\u00eb nuk \u00ebsht\u00eb Mossad-i.<\/span><\/p>\n

Yossi Cohen<\/span>: CIA \u00ebsht\u00eb m\u00eb e mira.<\/span><\/p>\n

Weiss:<\/span> E dyta? A mendon se pamja jote e mir\u00eb ka qen\u00eb n\u00eb avantazhin t\u00ebnd n\u00eb fush\u00ebn e spiunazhit?<\/span><\/p>\n

Yossi Cohen<\/span>: Un\u00eb nuk e pranoj q\u00eb kam pamje t\u00eb mir\u00eb.<\/span><\/p>\n

Weiss:<\/span> N\u00eb rregull. A \u00ebsht\u00eb p\u00ebrul\u00ebsia pjes\u00eb e mask\u00ebs t\u00ebnde tani?<\/span><\/p>\n

Yossi Cohen<\/span>: \u00cbsht\u00eb.<\/span><\/p>\n

Weiss:<\/span> Cili \u00ebsht\u00eb personazhi yt i preferuar q\u00eb ke luajtur? Ke luajtur mij\u00ebra. Cili \u00ebsht\u00eb i preferuari yt?<\/span><\/p>\n

Yossi Cohen<\/span>: Mendoj se i preferuari ishte nj\u00eb personazh franko-libanez. K\u00ebto dy gjuh\u00eb q\u00eb i dua shum\u00eb, fr\u00ebngjisht dhe arabisht. Dhe kam qen\u00eb shum\u00eb personazhe n\u00ebn k\u00ebto dy gjuh\u00eb.<\/span><\/p>\n

Weiss:<\/span> Ti shkruan n\u00eb librin t\u00ebnd se si i kthen burimet duke gjetur dob\u00ebsit\u00eb e tyre. N\u00ebse do p\u00ebrpiqeshe t\u00eb gjeje dob\u00ebsin\u00eb time, cila do \u00a0ishte?<\/span><\/p>\n

Yossi Cohen<\/span>: Nuk t\u00eb njoh aq sa duhet ende, por do e\u00a0gjej.<\/span><\/p>\n

Weiss:<\/span> Yosi Cohen, faleminderit shum\u00eb.<\/span><\/p>\n

Yossi Cohen<\/span>: Faleminderit shum\u00eb, Weiss.<\/span><\/p>\n

…<\/p>\n

*<\/strong><\/span>Videon e plot\u00eb t\u00eb intervist\u00ebs n\u00eb Youtube e shihni K\u00cbTU<\/a><\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n","protected":false,"gt_translate_keys":[{"key":"rendered","format":"html"}]},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Nga Barry Weiss Yossi Cohen, ish-drejtori i Mossadit, agjencis\u00eb s\u00eb inteligjenc\u00ebs s\u00eb Izraelit – e kaloi pjes\u00ebn m\u00eb t\u00eb madhe t\u00eb karrier\u00ebs s\u00eb tij 38-vje\u00e7are si spiun n\u00eb hije. Ai njihej vet\u00ebm me nj\u00eb shkronj\u00eb: Y, ose ndonj\u00ebher\u00eb “Modeli”, me sa duket p\u00ebr pamjen e tij. Ai ishte, si\u00e7 shkruan, “nj\u00eb fantazm\u00eb, q\u00eb nuk shihej […]<\/p>\n","protected":false,"gt_translate_keys":[{"key":"rendered","format":"html"}]},"author":51,"featured_media":763484,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[22,11],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-763481","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-ballina","category-super-click"],"gt_translate_keys":[{"key":"link","format":"url"}],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.hashtag.al\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/763481","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.hashtag.al\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.hashtag.al\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.hashtag.al\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/51"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.hashtag.al\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=763481"}],"version-history":[{"count":99999,"href":"https:\/\/www.hashtag.al\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/763481\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":763505,"href":"https:\/\/www.hashtag.al\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/763481\/revisions\/763505"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.hashtag.al\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/763484"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.hashtag.al\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=763481"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.hashtag.al\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=763481"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.hashtag.al\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=763481"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}