{"id":629113,"date":"2023-11-04T12:03:10","date_gmt":"2023-11-04T11:03:10","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.hashtag.al\/?p=629113"},"modified":"2023-11-04T12:03:10","modified_gmt":"2023-11-04T11:03:10","slug":"e-fajesoi-per-brexit-rama-debaton-me-historianin-per-toni-blerin-mos-e-prek-ne-pranine-time","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.hashtag.al\/index.php\/2023\/11\/04\/e-fajesoi-per-brexit-rama-debaton-me-historianin-per-toni-blerin-mos-e-prek-ne-pranine-time\/","title":{"rendered":"E faj\u00ebsoi p\u00ebr \u201cBrexit\u201d, Rama debaton me historianin p\u00ebr Toni Blerin: Mos e prek n\u00eb pranin\u00eb time","gt_translate_keys":[{"key":"rendered","format":"text"}]},"content":{"rendered":"<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.hashtag.al\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/11\/rama-tony-blair.png\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"aligncenter size-full wp-image-629114\" src=\"https:\/\/www.hashtag.al\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/11\/rama-tony-blair.png\" alt=\"\" width=\"1088\" height=\"606\" srcset=\"https:\/\/www.hashtag.al\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/11\/rama-tony-blair.png 1088w, https:\/\/www.hashtag.al\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/11\/rama-tony-blair-300x167.png 300w, https:\/\/www.hashtag.al\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/11\/rama-tony-blair-1024x570.png 1024w, https:\/\/www.hashtag.al\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/11\/rama-tony-blair-768x428.png 768w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1088px) 100vw, 1088px\" \/><\/a><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">Kryeministri Edi Rama n\u00eb serin\u00eb e radh\u00ebs t\u00eb Podcastit t\u00eb tij \u201cFlasim\u201d kishte k\u00ebt\u00eb her\u00eb historianin, autorin dhe gazetarin e famsh\u00ebm britanik, Timothy Garton Ash.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">Gjat\u00eb diskutimit u prek edhe dalja e Britanis\u00eb nga Bashkimi Evropian Historiani britanik \u00ebsht\u00eb shprehur se \u2018Brexit\u2019 ishte \u2018distafa m\u00eb e madhe politike e jet\u00ebs s\u00eb tij\u2019.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">\u201cP\u00ebr mua, Brexit-i ishte disfata m\u00eb e madhe politike e jet\u00ebs sime. E gjith\u00eb jeta ime \u00ebsht\u00eb sjell\u00eb rreth Europ\u00ebs, un\u00eb jam nj\u00eb europian anglez, k\u00ebshtu q\u00eb shk\u00ebputja e Britanis\u00eb nga Europa \u00ebsht\u00eb tragjedi p\u00ebr Britanin\u00eb, por mendoj edhe p\u00ebr Bashkimin Europian dhe t\u00eb ardhmen e Europ\u00ebs. Megjithat\u00eb, nuk mendoj se Brexit-i e ka prer\u00eb at\u00eb lisin e britanizmit q\u00eb p\u00ebrshkruat. Mendoj q\u00eb vazhdon t\u00eb jet\u00eb aty\u201d, u shpreh Timothy Garton Ash.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">Lidhur me \u201cBrexit\u201d historiani britanik kritikoi qeverisjen e Tony Blair, q\u00eb sipas tij ishte nd\u00ebr shkaqet q\u00eb ndodhi m\u00eb pas dalja e Britanis\u00eb nga BE-ja.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">\u201c<em>Mendoj q\u00eb nj\u00eb nga gabimet q\u00eb b\u00ebri Toni Blair, t\u00eb cilin e admiroj p\u00ebr shum\u00eb gj\u00ebra \u2013 e tija ishte nj\u00eb periudh\u00eb e mrekullueshme\u00a0 e historis\u00eb britanike \u2013 gabimi q\u00eb b\u00ebri ishte t\u00eb besonte se ishte e mundur q\u00eb t\u00eb kishte vet\u00ebm hapje, hapje, hapje; hapje t\u00eb shoq\u00ebris\u00eb, hapje t\u00eb financave, hapje t\u00eb ekonomis\u00eb, hapje t\u00eb emigracionit pa pasur asnj\u00eb reagim! Sepse n\u00eb fakt pati nj\u00eb reagim.<\/em><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><em>Dhe slogani i p\u00ebrkrah\u00ebsve t\u00eb Brexit-it, q\u00eb iu dha fitoren \u2013 meq\u00eb ra fjala, vet\u00ebm 52 p\u00ebr qind me 48 p\u00ebr qind, mos harro, nuk ishte aspak e pashmangshme \u2013 ishte \u201cRimerr kontrollin\u201d. Ajo \u00e7far\u00eb ndodh tani n\u00eb Gjermani \u00ebsht\u00eb q\u00eb udh\u00ebheq\u00ebsit gjerman\u00eb po flasin p\u00ebr \u201ckontrolverlust\u201d (humbjen e kontrollit)-<\/em> tha historiani.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">Por kryeministri Rama ka th\u00ebn\u00eb se nuk duhet t\u00eb fliste p\u00ebr Blair n\u00eb pranin\u00eb e tij.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">\u201c<em>Mos e prek Tony Blair-in n\u00eb pranin\u00eb time<\/em>\u201d. Thjesht, mos e prek\u201d, u shpreh Kryeministri.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">M\u00eb tej Timothy Garton Ash \u00ebsht\u00eb shprehur se ai e kishte mik Tony Blair. \u201c<em>Shiko, un\u00eb e kam mik Tony Blair-in. Ai \u00ebsht\u00eb i rritur mjaftuesh\u00ebm, p\u00ebr t\u00eb pranuar gabimet e tij\u201d, u shpreh historiani .<\/em><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><em>Por Rama e ka ritheksuar se nuk donte t\u00eb flitej p\u00ebr Tony Blair n\u00eb pranin\u00eb e tij. \u201cJo, nuk po flas n\u00eb em\u00ebr t\u00eb tij. Ai mund t\u00eb flas\u00eb vet\u00eb p\u00ebr veten e t\u00eb merret me gabimet e tij. Por un\u00eb jam nj\u00eb fanatik i tij, k\u00ebshtu q\u00eb mos e prek Tony Blair-in. Jo p\u00ebr t\u00eb b\u00ebr\u00eb avokatin e tij, por, m\u00eb fal, sa vite ka Tony Blair q\u00eb \u00ebsht\u00eb larguar nga detyra, sa vite?<\/em><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><em>Nuk mendoj se \u00ebsht\u00eb shum\u00eb korrekte, q\u00eb\u00a0 ajo q\u00eb ndodhi me Brexit-in t\u2019i lihet Tony Blair-it si nj\u00eb gabim tjet\u00ebr, sepse, ndoshta, asokohe \u2013 nuk e di \u2013 por, ndoshta, n\u00eb at\u00eb koh\u00eb, hapje, hapje, hapje ishte rruga e duhur dhe, mbase, mbyllje, mbyllje, mbyllje \u00ebsht\u00eb m\u00eb shum\u00eb nj\u00eb reagim nxitimthi, kur sheh q\u00eb po humbet kontroll, n\u00eb vend t\u00eb disa gj\u00ebrave q\u00eb mund t\u00eb ishin b\u00ebr\u00eb m\u00eb par\u00eb\u2026 dhe, pastaj, fajin e kishte Tony Blair!<\/em><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><em>Problemi n\u00eb Britani me Tony-n sa her\u00eb q\u00eb thot\u00eb di\u00e7ka, \u00ebsht\u00eb njer\u00ebzit nuk e d\u00ebgjojn\u00eb, por i thon\u00eb \u201cti e ke fajin p\u00ebr Irakun, k\u00ebshtu q\u00eb mos fol, ti je kriminel\u201d. Megjithat\u00eb, shum\u00eb koh\u00eb m\u00eb par\u00eb, ai e ka th\u00ebn\u00eb dhe e ka propozuar nj\u00eb m\u00ebnyr\u00eb p\u00ebr t\u00eb kontrolluar (imigracionin). Ai ka qen\u00eb nj\u00eb prej atyre njer\u00ebzve q\u00eb ka paraqitur propozime p\u00ebr kontrollin. Mund t\u00eb isha shum\u00eb mir\u00eb biografi i tij, por jo si ju, nga brenda, por nga jasht\u00eb<\/em>\u201d, \u00ebsht\u00eb shprehur Rama.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><iframe loading=\"lazy\" style=\"border: none; overflow: hidden;\" src=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/plugins\/video.php?href=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2Fediramaal%2Fvideos%2F257221106934769%2F%3Fref%3Dembed_video&amp;show_text=0&amp;width=560\" width=\"560\" height=\"315\" frameborder=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" allowfullscreen=\"allowfullscreen\"><\/iframe><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><strong>Intervista e plot\u00eb:<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><strong>Kryeministri Edi Rama:\u00a0<\/strong>Episodi i tet\u00eb i sezonit t\u00eb dyt\u00eb t\u00eb podkastit \u201cFlasim\u201d dhe nd\u00ebr t\u00eb ftuarit q\u00eb un\u00eb besoj se jan\u00eb special\u00eb gjithnj\u00eb n\u00eb k\u00ebt\u00eb tryez\u00eb, sot \u00ebsht\u00eb nj\u00eb i ftuar shum\u00eb special, historian britanik apo britanik nj\u00ebher\u00eb, pastaj historian\u2026<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><strong>Timothy Garton Ash:\u00a0<\/strong>Historian nj\u00ebher\u00eb, europian..<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><strong>Kryeministri Edi Rama:\u00a0\u00a0<\/strong>\u2026autor, opinionist dhe historian serioz. Pyetja ime \u00ebsht\u00eb, \u00e7far\u00eb \u00ebsht\u00eb m\u00eb shum\u00eb n\u00eb rrezik, kur nj\u00eb historian serioz diskuton mbi historin\u00eb bashk\u00ebkohore, e cila ende po ndodh, pra n\u00eb distanc\u00eb mjaft t\u00eb af\u00ebrt, q\u00eb nuk le shum\u00eb hap\u00ebsir\u00eb p\u00ebr gjykim retrospektiv? A \u00ebsht\u00eb n\u00eb rrezik vet\u00eb historia apo gjykimi i fakteve bashk\u00ebkohore, kur hyn n\u00eb mes historiani?<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><strong>Timothy Garton Ash:\u00a0<\/strong>Un\u00eb e p\u00ebrshkruaj shpesh veten si \u201chistorian i s\u00eb tashmes\u201d dhe \u00ebsht\u00eb interesante q\u00eb qysh prej koh\u00ebve t\u00eb Thukididit \u2013 i pari historian i mir\u00ebfillt\u00eb \u2013 deri n\u00eb shekullin e 18-t\u00eb, njer\u00ebzit mendonin se historia e koh\u00ebs kur jeton, \u00ebsht\u00eb historia m\u00eb e mir\u00eb, pasi, n\u00eb fund t\u00eb fundit, at\u00eb njohim m\u00eb mir\u00eb, bot\u00ebn n\u00eb t\u00eb cil\u00ebn jetojm\u00eb vet\u00eb. \u00cbsht\u00eb nj\u00eb ide mjaft e risht\u00eb, q\u00eb e ka zanafill\u00ebn vet\u00ebm n\u00eb shekullin e 19-t\u00eb, sipas s\u00eb cil\u00ebs duhet t\u00eb pres\u00ebsh 30 a 40 vjet. M\u2019u desh\u00ebn 50 vjet p\u00ebr ta shkruar k\u00ebt\u00eb lib\u00ebr, 50 udh\u00ebtime p\u00ebrreth Europ\u00ebs, duke mbajtur sh\u00ebnime mbi gjith\u00e7ka. E vetmja gj\u00eb q\u00eb di \u00ebsht\u00eb sesi ishte t\u00eb ndodheshe atje. Si ishte t\u00eb gjendeshe n\u00eb Gjermanin\u00eb Lindore, gj\u00ebrat q\u00eb b\u00ebheshin nga Stasi ose kur u rr\u00ebzua Muri i Berlinit, ose gjat\u00eb Revolucionit t\u00eb Kadifenjt\u00eb n\u00eb vitin 1990 apo n\u00eb Kosov\u00eb n\u00eb vitin 1999. Ajo \u00e7far\u00eb di tani jan\u00eb pasojat. Mendoj q\u00eb nuk jan\u00eb n\u00eb kund\u00ebrshti, jan\u00eb plot\u00ebsuese.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">Kryeministri Edi Rama:\u00a0 Po, kjo \u00ebsht\u00eb nj\u00eb m\u00ebnyr\u00eb e mir\u00eb p\u00ebr t\u00eb argumentuar n\u00eb favor t\u00eb t\u00eb dyjave, p\u00ebr t\u00eb mbrojtur at\u00eb q\u00eb b\u00ebn. Sidoqoft\u00eb, ka ende nj\u00eb rrezik, nuk po them kund\u00ebrshti, por rrezik\u2026<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><strong>Timothy Garton Ash:\u00a0\u00a0<\/strong>N\u00ebse mundem\u2026 A mund t\u00eb q\u00ebndroj pak k\u00ebtu? Problemi me historianin q\u00eb b\u00ebn gj\u00ebn\u00eb tipike t\u00eb historianit akademik dhe pret 30 apo 40 vjet, \u00ebsht\u00eb ai q\u00eb filozofi Henri Bergson e quan iluzioni i\u00a0 determinizmit retrospektiv, tundimi gati i parezistuesh\u00ebm p\u00ebr t\u00eb besuar se ajo \u00e7far\u00eb n\u00eb fakt ka ndodhur, n\u00eb nj\u00eb far\u00eb m\u00ebnyre duhej t\u00eb ndodhte. Le t\u00eb marrim fundin e komunizmit, r\u00ebnien e Murit t\u00eb Berlinit, fundin e Luft\u00ebs s\u00eb Ftoht\u00eb, fundin e komunizmit n\u00eb Shqip\u00ebri\u2026 Njer\u00ebzve sot iu duket sikur ishte e pashmangshme. Ju e dini shum\u00eb mir\u00eb q\u00eb vet\u00ebm e pashmangshme nuk ishte. Pra, ajo q\u00eb k\u00ebsisoj mungon \u00ebsht\u00eb bot\u00ebkuptimi mbi se si iu dukej njer\u00ebzve t\u00eb asaj kohe dhe \u00e7far\u00eb nuk dinin ata n\u00eb at\u00eb koh\u00eb. Ky \u00ebsht\u00eb avantazhi kur historia nis t\u00eb shkruhet nga momenti i s\u00eb tashmes.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><strong>Kryeministri Edi Rama:\u00a0 <\/strong>At\u00ebher\u00eb, shkojm\u00eb te pyetja tjet\u00ebr, q\u00eb \u00ebsht\u00eb: \u201cKur shkruani opinionet tuaja \u2013 opinione t\u00eb forta m\u00eb duhet t\u00eb them \u2013 mbi ngjarjet e dit\u00ebs, shkruani histori apo p\u00ebrpiqeni t\u00eb p\u00ebrcaktoni nj\u00eb drejtim t\u00eb mundsh\u00ebm p\u00ebr lexuesit tuaj, bazuar n\u00eb m\u00ebnyr\u00ebn sesi e lexoni momentin dhe, po k\u00ebshtu, mb\u00ebshtetur tek ajo \u00e7ka keni m\u00ebsuar nga historia?\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><strong>Timothy Garton Ash:\u00a0\u00a0<\/strong>Do t\u00eb thoja q\u00eb historiani dhe gazetari \u2013 dhe un\u00eb jam q\u00eb t\u00eb dyja k\u00ebto \u2013 \u2026<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><strong>Kryeministri Edi Rama:\u00a0 \u00a0<\/strong>Ky \u00ebsht\u00eb problemi\u2026<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><strong>Timothy Garton Ash:\u00a0<\/strong>Nuk \u00ebsht\u00eb problem, \u00ebsht\u00eb nj\u00eb avantazh i madh \u2013 t\u00eb dy, n\u00eb thelb, jan\u00eb n\u00eb k\u00ebrkim t\u00eb s\u00eb v\u00ebrtet\u00ebs. \u00cbsht\u00eb shum\u00eb e thjesht\u00eb. Detyra e t\u00eb dyve \u00ebsht\u00eb t\u00eb q\u00ebmtojn\u00eb t\u00eb v\u00ebrtet\u00ebn dhe k\u00ebt\u00eb e b\u00ebjm\u00eb n\u00eb m\u00ebnyr\u00eb paksa t\u00eb ndryshme, e vrojtojm\u00eb paraprakisht, vijm\u00eb t\u00eb flasim me nj\u00eb kryeminist\u00ebr \u2013 m\u00ebson shum\u00eb duke folur me kryeministra \u2013 por edhe duke u ulur n\u00ebp\u00ebr biblioteka apo arkiva p\u00ebr t\u00eb lexuar dokumente t\u00eb 50 vjet\u00ebve m\u00eb par\u00eb. K\u00ebshtu q\u00eb, nuk mendoj q\u00eb kund\u00ebrshtia q\u00ebndron k\u00ebtu, kund\u00ebrshtia vjen kur fillon t\u00eb mendosh \u2013 un\u00eb e quaj \u201criti i Kisingerit\u201d \u2013 kur e mendon veten si vendimmarr\u00ebs dhe\u00a0 gati p\u00ebrpiqesh t\u00eb jesh nj\u00eb qeveri dhe t\u00eb b\u00ebsh politik\u00ebn e qeveris\u00eb, n\u00eb vend q\u00eb t\u00eb b\u00ebsh at\u00eb q\u00eb \u00ebsht\u00eb puna jon\u00eb, p\u00ebrpjekjen p\u00ebr t\u00eb k\u00ebrkuar t\u00eb v\u00ebrtet\u00ebn dhe p\u00ebr ta th\u00ebn\u00eb at\u00eb si\u00e7 \u00ebsht\u00eb, duke i th\u00ebn\u00eb pushtetit t\u00eb v\u00ebrtet\u00ebn. Pra, k\u00ebt\u00eb kam menduar q\u00eb kam b\u00ebr\u00eb, gjithmon\u00eb.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><strong>Kryeministri Edi Rama:\u00a0 \u00a0<\/strong>Por, n\u00eb nj\u00eb far\u00eb m\u00ebnyre, kur i thua pushtetit t\u00eb v\u00ebrtet\u00ebn, v\u00eb n\u00eb diskutim vendimin e pushtetit.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><strong>Timothy Garton Ash:\u00a0<\/strong>\u00a0Sigurisht.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><strong>Kryeministri Edi Rama:\u00a0 <\/strong>\u00a0Dhe, kur v\u00eb n\u00eb diskutim vendimin e pushtetit dhe thua \u201cnuk \u00ebsht\u00eb puna ime t\u00eb marr vendime\u201d, ti e v\u00eb veten n\u00eb nj\u00ebfar\u00eb m\u00ebnyre edhe mbi vendimmarr\u00ebsin dhe pa e shprehur, ti pretendon se e v\u00ebrteta jote \u00ebsht\u00eb m\u00eb e mir\u00eb sesa e v\u00ebrteta q\u00eb e \u00e7on vendimmarr\u00ebsin drejt vendimit t\u00eb vet.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><strong>Timothy Garton Ash:\u00a0\u00a0<\/strong>Shiko si \u00ebsht\u00eb puna, demokracia varet nga ndarja e pushteteve. Ke pushtetin gjyq\u00ebsor, legjislativ dhe ekzekutiv dhe\u2026<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><strong>Kryeministri Edi Rama:\u00a0 \u00a0<\/strong>Po, po dhe jam dakord me k\u00ebt\u00eb, por mos m\u2019u shmangni\u2026<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><strong>Timothy Garton Ash: <\/strong>Nuk po shmangem. Ka nj\u00eb ekuivalent intelektual t\u00eb ndarjes s\u00eb pushteteve, q\u00eb \u00ebsht\u00eb se ne luajm\u00eb role t\u00eb ndryshme, q\u00eb, dometh\u00ebn\u00eb, ti, si politikan\u2026<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><strong>Kryeministri Edi Rama:\u00a0 \u00a0<\/strong>Po, po, jam dakord me k\u00ebt\u00eb\u2026, por dua q\u00eb tani t\u00eb m\u00eb rr\u00ebfeheni, sepse duhet t\u00eb rr\u00ebfeheni. Duhet t\u00eb p\u00ebrpiqem t\u2019ju b\u00ebj t\u00eb rr\u00ebfeheni dhe n\u00ebse k\u00ebrkoni t\u00eb mbroheni t\u00ebr\u00eb koh\u00ebn me an\u00eb t\u00eb disa argumenteve t\u00eb formuluara bukur, n\u00eb rregull, por m\u00eb duhet t\u00eb k\u00ebmb\u00ebngul. A nuk mendoni se, kur thoni \u201ci them pushtetit t\u00eb v\u00ebrtet\u00ebn, pra le t\u00eb themi, ky vendim \u00ebsht\u00eb nj\u00eb gomarll\u00ebk\u201d, a nuk mendoni se i jepni vetes nj\u00eb ep\u00ebrsi morale t\u00eb pap\u00ebrgjegjshme, duke th\u00ebn\u00eb \u201cnuk \u00ebsht\u00eb p\u00ebrgjegj\u00ebsia ime ta b\u00ebj k\u00ebt\u00eb, nuk b\u00ebj pun\u00ebn t\u00ebnde, por po t\u00eb them q\u00eb ajo q\u00eb po b\u00ebn \u00ebsht\u00eb nj\u00eb gomarll\u00ebk\u201d.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><strong>Timothy Garton Ash:\u00a0\u00a0<\/strong>Nuk do p\u00ebrdorja tamam at\u00eb gjuh\u00eb, t\u00eb t\u00eb thoja q\u00eb ajo q\u00eb po b\u00ebn \u00ebsht\u00eb \u201cgomarll\u00ebk\u201d. Ajo q\u00eb do thoja\u2026<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><strong>Kryeministri Edi Rama:\u00a0 <\/strong>Jo\u2026 thjesht po e zhvesh nga zbukurimet gjuh\u00ebsore, p\u00ebr ta b\u00ebr\u00eb t\u00eb qart\u00eb at\u00eb q\u00eb k\u00ebrkoj t\u00eb nxjerr prej jush.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><strong>Timothy Garton Ash:\u00a0\u00a0 <\/strong>Miku im i mir\u00eb, Vaclav Havel, q\u00eb \u00ebsht\u00eb nj\u00eb prej heronjve t\u00eb k\u00ebtij libri, i cili ishte disident e m\u00eb pas dramaturg dhe m\u00eb tej, politikan e president\u2026<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><strong>Kryeministri Edi Rama:\u00a0 <\/strong>Nuk jemi ende te libri. Do vij edhe te libri.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><strong>Timothy Garton Ash:\u2026 <\/strong>po ka shum\u00eb lidhje me k\u00ebt\u00eb. Ai kishte iden\u00eb se mund t\u00eb vazhdosh t\u00eb jesh nj\u00ebkoh\u00ebsisht edhe intelektual, edhe politikan e vendimmarr\u00ebs. Argumenti im \u00ebsht\u00eb q\u00eb k\u00ebto jan\u00eb thjesht role t\u00eb ndryshme. Por, politikanit i duhet domosdoshm\u00ebrisht t\u00eb ndjek\u00eb nj\u00eb linj\u00eb t\u00eb caktuar dhe ta \u00e7oj\u00eb p\u00ebrpara k\u00ebt\u00eb linj\u00eb e ta p\u00ebrs\u00ebris\u00eb, q\u00eb fundja t\u00eb fitoj\u00eb zgjedhjet. Intelektuali e sfidon n\u00eb m\u00ebnyr\u00eb t\u00eb vazhdueshme, e rivler\u00ebson, e sheh nga k\u00ebnde t\u00eb ndryshme. Nuk \u00ebsht\u00eb \u00e7\u00ebshtja q\u00eb nj\u00ebri ka ep\u00ebrsi morale ndaj tjetrit, demokracia ka nevoj\u00eb p\u00ebr t\u00eb dy, po aq sa ka nevoj\u00eb p\u00ebr parlamentin, ekzekutivin dhe legjislativin.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><strong>Kryeministri Edi Rama:\u00a0 \u00a0<\/strong>Absolutisht. Nuk po v\u00eb n\u00eb diskutim t\u00eb drejt\u00ebn e ekzistenc\u00ebs suaj\u2026<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><strong>Timothy Garton Ash:\u00a0<\/strong>\u00a0Shum\u00eb e sjellshme nga ana juaj!<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><strong>Kryeministri Edi Rama:\u00a0 \u00a0<\/strong>\u2026 si nj\u00eb person q\u00eb i thot\u00eb t\u00eb v\u00ebrtet\u00ebn pushtetit, po p\u00ebrpiqesha t\u00eb zb\u00ebrtheja paksa at\u00eb me t\u00eb cil\u00ebn e nisa. Edhe nj\u00ebher\u00eb, ju jeni historian, jeni edhe opinionist, t\u00eb themi, autor librash, gazetar e t\u00eb gjitha k\u00ebto dhe gjendeni n\u00eb nj\u00eb pozicion shum\u00eb t\u00eb mir\u00eb, pasi, duke njohur historin\u00eb, zot\u00ebroni instrumente mjaft t\u00eb forta ose antena t\u00eb ndjeshme, p\u00ebr t\u00eb filtruar at\u00eb \u00e7far\u00eb ndodh n\u00eb realitet, por desha thjesht t\u00eb dija prej jush sa mund ta minoj\u00eb kjo nj\u00ebr\u00ebn apo tjetr\u00ebn. Ju u p\u00ebrgjigj\u00ebt deri diku dhe e kuptoj plot\u00ebsisht. Le t\u00eb shkojm\u00eb pak m\u00eb tej, at\u00ebher\u00eb. Ju keni qen\u00eb shum\u00eb i p\u00ebrfshir\u00eb, me gjith\u00eb zem\u00ebr do thoja nga ajo \u00e7ka kam lexuar, n\u00eb nj\u00eb ndryshim t\u00eb madh, n\u00eb kalimin historik nga regjimet totalitare n\u00eb shoq\u00ebri t\u00eb lira. Tema juaj kan\u00eb qen\u00eb revolucionet e ish-regjimeve komuniste. N\u00eb ato momente n\u00eb koh\u00eb, ju ishit shum\u00eb entuziast p\u00ebr at\u00eb q\u00eb ndodhte. Po tani, par\u00eb me syt\u00eb e asaj q\u00eb po ndodh, a nuk mendoni se ajo \u00e7far\u00eb keni shkruar asokohe ishte gazetari dhe ajo \u00e7far\u00eb shkruani n\u00eb k\u00ebt\u00eb koh\u00eb lidhur me at\u00eb q\u00eb keni shkruar dikur \u00ebsht\u00eb histori?<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><strong>Timothy Garton Ash:\u00a0\u00a0<\/strong>Ah, e kuptoj ku e keni fjal\u00ebn. Mendoj q\u00eb t\u00eb dyja jan\u00eb histori. Mendoj q\u00eb jan\u00eb lloje paksa t\u00eb ndryshme historie. Nj\u00ebra \u00ebsht\u00eb historia e s\u00eb tashmes, q\u00eb, si\u00e7 e thash\u00eb, p\u00ebr shekuj t\u00eb t\u00ebr\u00eb \u00ebsht\u00eb konsideruar si historia m\u00eb e mir\u00eb, asnj\u00eb s\u2019mund t\u00eb thot\u00eb q\u00eb Thukididi nuk ishte historian, por ajo \u00e7far\u00eb nuk njihet jan\u00eb pasojat afatgjata. K\u00ebshtu q\u00eb, k\u00ebtu, p\u00ebr her\u00eb t\u00eb par\u00eb, pas 50 vjet\u00ebsh, po kthej kok\u00ebn pas, ajo q\u00eb n\u00eb gjuh\u00ebn angleze njihet si \u201cvrojtim n\u00eb retrospektiv\u00eb\u201d, nj\u00eb instrument i mrekulluesh\u00ebm, q\u00eb ka avantazhin e t\u00eb kuptuarit t\u00eb di\u00e7kaje pasi ka ndodhur.\u00a0 Sa i takon argumentit tuaj p\u00ebr lirin\u00eb \u2013 sepse ky \u00ebsht\u00eb nj\u00eb lib\u00ebr mbi Europ\u00ebn dhe lirin\u00eb, dy lajtmotivet e jet\u00ebs sime \u2013 kur nisa t\u00eb udh\u00ebtoj n\u00ebp\u00ebr Europ\u00eb n\u00eb fillim t\u00eb viteve \u201970, shumica e europian\u00ebve jetonin ende n\u00ebn diktatur\u00eb, jo vet\u00ebm Shqip\u00ebria dhe e gjith\u00eb Europa Lindore e Juglindore, por edhe Spanja, Portugalia dhe Greqia, q\u00eb kishin diktatura fashiste, ndaj historia e madhe, jo vet\u00ebm e jet\u00ebs sime, por edhe e Europ\u00ebs, \u00ebsht\u00eb p\u00ebrhapja e liris\u00eb dhe e demokracis\u00eb dhe, pastaj, e bashkimit t\u00eb Europ\u00ebs dhe nuk mendoj q\u00eb e shoh me m\u00eb pak entuziaz\u00ebm tani sesa e shihja gjat\u00eb koh\u00ebs kur isha d\u00ebshmitar i saj. Sigurisht, kishte probleme t\u00eb m\u00ebdha, gjithmon\u00eb ka probleme, por m\u00eb duket se thelbi \u00ebsht\u00eb nj\u00eb histori e shk\u00eblqyer e p\u00ebrhapjes s\u00eb liris\u00eb. Edhe di\u00e7ka tjet\u00ebr shum\u00eb shpejt. Shum\u00eb historian\u00ebve akademik\u00eb apo studiuesve iu p\u00eblqen t\u00eb mbajn\u00eb nj\u00eb ftoht\u00ebsi olimpike, sikur jan\u00eb t\u00eb shk\u00ebputur dhe asnjan\u00ebs. Askush nuk \u00ebsht\u00eb asnjan\u00ebs, askush nuk \u00ebsht\u00eb objektiv. Un\u00eb kam nj\u00eb tjet\u00ebr qasje. Modeli im \u00ebsht\u00eb George Orwell, \u201cHomazh Katalonj\u00ebs\u201d. Ti iu tregon lexuesve sakt\u00ebsisht q\u00ebndrimin q\u00eb ke: un\u00eb jam me disident\u00ebt, un\u00eb mb\u00ebshtes lirin\u00eb, un\u00eb mb\u00ebshtes demokracin\u00eb, un\u00eb mb\u00ebshtes Europ\u00ebn. \u00cbsht\u00eb nj\u00eb lloj kontrate me lexuesin t\u00ebnd, \u00ebsht\u00eb kontrat\u00eb ndershm\u00ebrie, n\u00eb vend t\u00eb pretendosh se ke ftoht\u00ebsi olimpike dhe je asnjan\u00ebs, \u00e7ka mbart nj\u00eb lloj mashtrimi n\u00eb vetvete.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><strong>Kryeministri Edi Rama:\u00a0 \u00a0<\/strong>Prirem t\u00eb bie dakord me ju p\u00ebr k\u00ebt\u00eb. Pyetja tjet\u00ebr \u00ebsht\u00eb, \u00e7far\u00eb ka shkuar keq nga koha e ngjarjeve ku keni qen\u00eb d\u00ebshmitar n\u00eb fillim t\u00eb k\u00ebtij ndryshimi t\u00eb jasht\u00ebzakonsh\u00ebm \u2013 nuk besoj ka njeri q\u00eb e v\u00eb n\u00eb dyshim se ky ka qen\u00eb nj\u00eb ndryshim v\u00ebrtet i madh dhe pozitiv \u2013 dhe deri m\u00eb sot. Ju jeni nj\u00eb d\u00ebshmitar, i cili gjithnj\u00eb ka k\u00ebmb\u00ebngulur t\u00eb d\u00ebshmoj\u00eb dhe nuk i ka ikur asnj\u00ebher\u00eb d\u00ebshmis\u00eb n\u00eb bank\u00ebn e gjyqit publik. Pra, kur ishit d\u00ebshmitar i nj\u00eb ndryshimi t\u00eb madh, e shihnit sigurisht me syrin objektiv t\u00eb asaj q\u00eb po ndodhte, por edhe me nj\u00eb d\u00ebshir\u00eb t\u00eb madhe subjektive q\u00eb kjo t\u00eb \u00e7onte n\u00eb di\u00e7ka t\u00eb mrekullueshme. Nd\u00ebrkoh\u00eb, sot, vazhdoni t\u00eb d\u00ebshmoni n\u00eb bank\u00ebn e gjyqit publik dhe jeni d\u00ebshmitar q\u00eb disa gj\u00ebra kan\u00eb shkuar keq. Pra, n\u00ebse mund ta p\u00ebrmblidhni n\u00eb shum\u00eb pak minuta, \u00e7far\u00eb shkoi keq?<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><strong>Timothy Garton Ash:\u00a0\u00a0<\/strong>Dy gj\u00ebra. S\u00eb pari, n\u00ebnvler\u00ebsuam at\u00eb q\u00eb do t\u00eb ishte p\u00ebrgjigjja, reagimi. Shembulli klasik: perandoria ruse, perandoria sovjetike ruse, apo jo? Ne njihemi me r\u00ebnien e perandorive nga historia. Atyre nuk iu p\u00eblqen. Pyesni britanik\u00ebt, pyesni francez\u00ebt. Ndaj, kur perandoria sovjetike ruse u zhduk befas, pa pip\u00ebtir\u00eb, brenda tre viteve, 1989-1991, nuk duhet t\u00eb kishim menduar q\u00eb historia mbaroi aty. E them edhe n\u00eb lib\u00ebr,\u00a0 kur u takova me Vladimir Putinin, n\u00eb vitin 1994, ai fliste q\u00eb at\u00ebher\u00eb p\u00ebr Krimen\u00eb, thoshte q\u00eb Rusia duhet t\u00eb merrte mbrapsht disa nga territoret q\u00eb kishin qen\u00eb gjithnj\u00eb ruse. Pra, kjo ka t\u00eb b\u00ebj\u00eb me mosparashikimin e asaj \u00e7far\u00eb do t\u00eb b\u00ebnte pala tjet\u00ebr, q\u00eb Rusia do t\u00eb p\u00ebrpiqej t\u00eb kthente perandorin\u00eb e saj. Gjysma tjet\u00ebr e historis\u00eb ka t\u00eb b\u00ebj\u00eb me gabimet tona si europian\u00eb liberal\u00eb \u2013 dhe ky \u00ebsht\u00eb edhe nj\u00eb lib\u00ebr autokritik. Arroganca! Miqt\u00eb tan\u00eb t\u00eb vjet\u00ebr grek\u00eb\u2026 Nga fillimi deri n\u00eb mes t\u00eb viteve \u20182000, menduam q\u00eb \u00e7do gj\u00eb do shkonte n\u00eb drejtimin q\u00eb donim ne dhe \u00ebsht\u00eb pik\u00ebrisht n\u00eb k\u00ebt\u00eb moment, n\u00eb vitin 2007-2008, q\u00eb gj\u00ebrat nis\u00ebn t\u00eb shkonin keq n\u00eb shum\u00eb aspekte. Fol\u00ebm kaq shum\u00eb p\u00ebr gjysm\u00ebn tjet\u00ebr t\u00eb bot\u00ebs, p\u00ebr komunitetin europian, p\u00ebr Europ\u00ebn, sa neglizhuam gjysm\u00ebn tjet\u00ebr t\u00eb shoq\u00ebrive tona. Pra, mendoj se jan\u00eb ata, por edhe ne.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><strong>Kryeministri Edi Rama:\u00a0 \u00a0<\/strong>Dhe gjysma tjet\u00ebr n\u00ebnkupton?<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><strong>Timothy Garton Ash:\u00a0\u00a0<\/strong>N\u00ebnkupton njer\u00ebzit q\u00eb votuan p\u00ebr Brexit-in, njer\u00ebzit q\u00eb votuan p\u00ebr Jaros\u0142aw Kaczy\u0144ski-n, njer\u00ebzit q\u00eb votuan p\u00ebr Donald Trump-in.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><strong>Kryeministri Edi Rama:\u00a0 \u00a0<\/strong>Do t\u00eb vijm\u00eb te Brexit-i.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><strong>Timothy Garton Ash: \u00a0<\/strong>E kam fjal\u00ebn p\u00ebr ata q\u00eb nuk ishin t\u00eb k\u00ebnaqur me at\u00eb q\u00eb, p\u00ebr ne ose, s\u00eb paku, p\u00ebr mua si Europian liberal, ishte nj\u00eb histori e mrekullueshme progresi, e hapjes s\u00eb kufijve e Europ\u00ebs q\u00eb b\u00ebhej bashk\u00eb. P\u00ebr ta, nuk funksionoi.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><strong>Kryeministri Edi Rama:\u00a0 \u00a0<\/strong>Mendoj q\u00eb, \u201cpo\u201d, por, gjithashtu, p\u00ebr ta shkoi keq nj\u00ebfar\u00ebsoj, por nuk shkoi mir\u00eb as p\u00ebr an\u00ebn tjet\u00ebr t\u00eb hemisfer\u00ebs, ku ata q\u00eb ishin modeli yn\u00eb, burimi yn\u00eb i frym\u00ebzimit, qytetet e praruara mbi kod\u00ebr, kishin k\u00ebt\u00eb ndarje gjysm\u00eb p\u00ebr gjysm\u00eb.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><strong>Timothy Garton Ash:\u00a0\u00a0<\/strong>E ke fjal\u00ebn p\u00ebr Shtetet e Bashkuara t\u00eb Amerik\u00ebs.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><strong>Kryeministri Edi Rama:\u00a0 \u00a0<\/strong>Jo, nga Per\u00ebndimi, t\u00eb themi, pra, nga Europa Per\u00ebndimore deri te Shtetet e Bashkuara. N\u00eb nj\u00eb far\u00eb m\u00ebnyre jan\u00eb t\u00eb lidhura.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><strong>Timothy Garton Ash:\u00a0\u00a0<\/strong>Plot\u00ebsisht! Dhe ajo q\u00eb do t\u00eb thoja \u00ebsht\u00eb se ishte pik\u00ebrisht Per\u00ebndimi q\u00eb ra pre e arroganc\u00ebs, i p\u00eblqeu vetja, u b\u00eb dembel dhe i vet\u00ebk\u00ebnaqur. Ka di\u00e7ka ironike n\u00eb k\u00ebt\u00eb histori, sepse, n\u00eb nj\u00ebfar\u00eb m\u00ebnyre, konkurrenca me Bashkimin Sovjetik, konkurrenca ideologjike me Bashkimi Sovjetik, na mbante vigjilent\u00eb. Na duhej t\u00eb konkurronim, duhej t\u00eb provonim se kishim nj\u00eb model m\u00eb t\u00eb mir\u00eb dhe k\u00ebshtu kishim shtete m\u00eb t\u00eb forta t\u00eb mir\u00ebqenies sociale, si dhe ekonomi t\u00eb forta. Nj\u00ebfar\u00ebsoj, ram\u00eb viktima te vet\u00eb fitores son\u00eb. Befas, n\u00eb vitet \u201990-\u20182000, dukej se nuk kishim m\u00eb nj\u00eb konkurrent t\u00eb madh ideologjik global \u2013 ajo \u00e7far\u00eb shkruante Francis Fukuyama n\u00eb librin e tij t\u00eb famsh\u00ebm, \u201cFundi i historis\u00eb\u201d \u2013 dhe at\u00ebher\u00eb nis\u00ebm t\u00eb b\u00ebheshim dembel\u00eb dhe t\u00eb vet\u00ebk\u00ebnaqur. Tanim\u00eb, kemi s\u00ebrish konkurrent, kemi Vladimir Putinin, por kemi edhe Kin\u00ebn.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><strong>Kryeministri Edi Rama:\u00a0 \u00a0<\/strong>Nj\u00eb tjet\u00ebr aspekt i k\u00ebsaj \u00ebsht\u00eb s\u00ebrish nj\u00eb d\u00ebshmi ndryshe e juaja \u2013 ju jeni i nj\u00ebjti person \u2013 por, dikur, jo shum\u00eb koh\u00eb m\u00eb par\u00eb,\u00a0 ju gjet\u00ebt nj\u00eb m\u00ebnyr\u00eb t\u00eb bukur p\u00ebr t\u00eb shpjeguar se \u00e7far\u00eb ishte britanizmi dhe u shpreh\u00ebt q\u00eb ishte si nj\u00eb paradoks:\u00a0 Perandoria e m\u00ebparshme \u00ebsht\u00eb kthyer n\u00eb identitetin post-perandorak t\u00eb nj\u00eb shoq\u00ebrie gjithp\u00ebrfshir\u00ebse, civile dhe shum\u00eb liberale. K\u00ebshtu ishte at\u00ebher\u00eb, po tani \u00e7far\u00eb \u00ebsht\u00eb britanizmi, se nuk mendoj q\u00eb vazhdon t\u00eb jet\u00eb nj\u00ebsoj?<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><strong>Timothy Garton Ash:\u00a0\u00a0<\/strong>Me shum\u00eb respekt, nuk bie dakord.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><strong>Kryeministri Edi Rama:\u00a0 \u00a0<\/strong>M\u00eb thoni, pse? Dua lajme t\u00eb mira.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><strong>Timothy Garton Ash:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0<\/strong>Ja cili \u00ebsht\u00eb lajmi i mir\u00eb. M\u00eb gjej nj\u00eb vend tjet\u00ebr europian q\u00eb ka nj\u00eb kryeminist\u00ebr hindu, nj\u00eb minist\u00ebr t\u00eb Jasht\u00ebm me ngjyr\u00eb dhe nj\u00eb kryetar bashkie mysliman si t\u00eb Londr\u00ebs. Ky \u00ebsht\u00eb nj\u00eb kapacitet fantastik p\u00ebr t\u00eb p\u00ebrqafuar, jo vet\u00ebm skocez\u00ebt, anglez\u00ebt, uellsian\u00ebt dhe irlandez\u00ebt, por edhe njer\u00ebz nga mbar\u00eb bota.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><strong>Kryeministri Edi Rama:\u00a0<\/strong> \u00a0Jam dakord, por \u2013 ka nj\u00eb \u201cpor\u201d k\u00ebtu \u2013 kjo q\u00eb p\u00ebrshkruat \u00ebsht\u00eb produkti i asaj q\u00eb kishit shpjeguar n\u00eb at\u00eb koh\u00eb. At\u00ebher\u00eb, ju e zbuluat k\u00ebt\u00eb britaniz\u00ebm dhe that\u00eb: \u201cKy \u00ebsht\u00eb britanizmi\u201d. Le t\u00eb themi q\u00eb farat dhe e gjith\u00eb klima ekzistuese at\u00ebher\u00eb b\u00ebn\u00eb t\u00eb mundur q\u00eb kjo pem\u00eb t\u00eb lul\u00ebzonte dhe k\u00ebta emra jan\u00eb frytet e saj. Megjithat\u00eb, a mendoni se Britania e sotme do t\u00eb ishte e aft\u00eb t\u00eb vazhdonte pas 10 apo 20 vjet\u00ebsh t\u00eb prodhonte t\u00eb nj\u00ebjtat fryte, me ato q\u00eb po shohim, me retorik\u00ebn kund\u00ebr emigracionit, mb\u00ebshtetjen shum\u00eb t\u00eb fort\u00eb t\u00eb ideve dhe koncepteve q\u00eb, n\u00eb koh\u00ebn kur ju p\u00ebrshkruanit britanizmin, do t\u00eb ishin dukur ca k\u00ebndv\u00ebshtrime periferike, q\u00eb kurr\u00eb nuk do t\u00eb mund t\u00eb fitonin zgjedhje.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><strong>Timothy Garton Ash:\u00a0\u00a0<\/strong>Nuk mendoj k\u00ebshtu. P\u00ebr mua, Brexit-i ishte disfata m\u00eb e madhe politike e jet\u00ebs sime. E gjith\u00eb jeta ime \u00ebsht\u00eb sjell\u00eb rreth Europ\u00ebs, un\u00eb jam nj\u00eb europian anglez, k\u00ebshtu q\u00eb shk\u00ebputja e Britanis\u00eb nga Europa \u00ebsht\u00eb tragjedi p\u00ebr Britanin\u00eb, por mendoj edhe p\u00ebr Bashkimin Europian dhe t\u00eb ardhmen e Europ\u00ebs. Megjithat\u00eb, nuk mendoj se Brexit-i e ka prer\u00eb at\u00eb lisin e britanizmit q\u00eb p\u00ebrshkruat. Mendoj q\u00eb vazhdon t\u00eb jet\u00eb aty.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><strong>Kryeministri Edi Rama:\u00a0 \u00a0<\/strong>Ka ende shpres\u00eb<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><strong>Timothy Garton Ash:\u00a0\u00a0<\/strong>Po dhe, meq\u00eb ra fjala, duke qen\u00eb se, m\u00eb her\u00ebt, fol\u00ebm t\u00eb dy pak rreth migracionit, mendoj q\u00eb nj\u00eb nga gabimet q\u00eb b\u00ebri Toni Blair, t\u00eb cilin e admiroj p\u00ebr shum\u00eb gj\u00ebra \u2013 e tija ishte nj\u00eb periudh\u00eb e mrekullueshme\u00a0 e historis\u00eb britanike \u2013 gabimi q\u00eb b\u00ebri ishte t\u00eb besonte se ishte e mundur q\u00eb t\u00eb kishte vet\u00ebm hapje, hapje, hapje; hapje t\u00eb shoq\u00ebris\u00eb, hapje t\u00eb financave, hapje t\u00eb ekonomis\u00eb, hapje t\u00eb emigracionit pa pasur asnj\u00eb reagim! Sepse n\u00eb fakt pati nj\u00eb reagim. Dhe slogani i p\u00ebrkrah\u00ebsve t\u00eb Brexit-it, q\u00eb iu dha fitoren \u2013 meq\u00eb ra fjala, vet\u00ebm 52 p\u00ebr qind me 48 p\u00ebr qind, mos harro, nuk ishte aspak e pashmangshme \u2013 ishte \u201cRimerr kontrollin\u201d. Ajo \u00e7far\u00eb ndodh tani n\u00eb Gjermani \u00ebsht\u00eb q\u00eb udh\u00ebheq\u00ebsit gjerman\u00eb po flasin p\u00ebr \u201ckontrolverlust\u201d (humbjen e kontrollit). Pra, mendoj se t\u00eb gjitha shoq\u00ebrit\u00eb tona kan\u00eb nevoj\u00eb p\u00ebr at\u00eb ndjesin\u00eb q\u00eb gj\u00ebrat jan\u00eb n\u00ebn kontroll, q\u00eb imigracioni po menaxhohet. Pra, mendoj se ky ishte nj\u00eb gabim i viteve t\u00eb Blair-it, q\u00eb e paguam shtrenjt\u00eb. Por fakti q\u00eb tani po p\u00ebrpiqemi ta v\u00ebm\u00eb n\u00ebn kontroll, si t\u00eb gjitha vendet e tjera europiane, nuk do t\u00eb thot\u00eb se \u00ebsht\u00eb fundi i larmis\u00eb son\u00eb kulturore, \u00ebsht\u00eb p\u00ebrtej saj.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><strong>Kryeministri Edi Rama<\/strong>:\u00a0 \u00a0D\u00ebgjoni, s\u00eb pari, m\u00eb duhet t\u2019ju informoj q\u00eb jam shum\u00eb i hapur, por mbetem fanatik p\u00ebr disa gj\u00ebra dhe nj\u00eb prej tyre \u00ebsht\u00eb: \u201cMos e prek Tony Blair-in n\u00eb pranin\u00eb time\u201d. Thjesht, mos e prek.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><strong>Timothy Garton Ash:<\/strong>\u00a0Shiko, un\u00eb e kam mik Tony Blair-in. Ai \u00ebsht\u00eb i rritur mjaftuesh\u00ebm, p\u00ebr t\u00eb pranuar gabimet e tij.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><strong>Kryeministri Edi Rama:\u00a0<\/strong>Jo, nuk po flas n\u00eb em\u00ebr t\u00eb tij. Ai mund t\u00eb flas\u00eb vet\u00eb p\u00ebr veten e t\u00eb merret me gabimet e tij. Por un\u00eb jam nj\u00eb fanatik i tij, k\u00ebshtu q\u00eb mos e prek Tony Blair-in. Jo p\u00ebr t\u00eb b\u00ebr\u00eb avokatin e tij, por, m\u00eb fal, sa vite ka Tony Blair q\u00eb \u00ebsht\u00eb larguar nga detyra, sa vite? Nuk mendoj se \u00ebsht\u00eb shum\u00eb korrekte, q\u00eb\u00a0 ajo q\u00eb ndodhi me Brexit-in t\u2019i lihet Tony Blair-it si nj\u00eb gabim tjet\u00ebr, sepse, ndoshta, asokohe \u2013 nuk e di \u2013 por, ndoshta, n\u00eb at\u00eb koh\u00eb, hapje, hapje, hapje ishte rruga e duhur dhe, mbase, mbyllje, mbyllje, mbyllje \u00ebsht\u00eb m\u00eb shum\u00eb nj\u00eb reagim nxitimthi, kur sheh q\u00eb po humbet kontroll, n\u00eb vend t\u00eb disa gj\u00ebrave q\u00eb mund t\u00eb ishin b\u00ebr\u00eb m\u00eb par\u00eb\u2026 dhe, pastaj, fajin e kishte Tony Blair! Problemi n\u00eb Britani me Tony-n sa her\u00eb q\u00eb thot\u00eb di\u00e7ka, \u00ebsht\u00eb njer\u00ebzit nuk e d\u00ebgjojn\u00eb, por i thon\u00eb \u201cti e ke fajin p\u00ebr Irakun, k\u00ebshtu q\u00eb mos fol, ti je kriminel\u201d. Megjithat\u00eb, shum\u00eb koh\u00eb m\u00eb par\u00eb, ai e ka th\u00ebn\u00eb dhe e ka propozuar nj\u00eb m\u00ebnyr\u00eb p\u00ebr t\u00eb kontrolluar (imigracionin). Ai ka qen\u00eb nj\u00eb prej atyre njer\u00ebzve q\u00eb ka paraqitur propozime p\u00ebr kontrollin. Mund t\u00eb isha shum\u00eb mir\u00eb biografi i tij, por jo si ju, nga brenda, por nga jasht\u00eb.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><strong>Timothy Garton Ash:\u00a0\u00a0<\/strong>Un\u00eb kam folur me Tony-n p\u00ebr k\u00ebt\u00eb lib\u00ebr. Shkova dhe do e shihni n\u00eb lib\u00ebr, fola me t\u00eb rreth k\u00ebsaj dhe besoj q\u00eb ai do t\u00eb ishte dakord. Britania ishte e vetmja an\u00ebtare e BE-s\u00eb, q\u00eb, me zgjerimin e madh n\u00eb vitin 2004 dhe prap\u00eb n\u00eb vitin 2007, me Bullgarin\u00eb dhe Rumanin\u00eb, tha \u201cnuk ka kufi, \u00e7dokush mund t\u00eb hyj\u00eb\u201d dhe pastaj ata miliona europianolindor\u00eb q\u00eb erdh\u00ebn n\u00eb Britani \u2013 q\u00eb p\u00ebr mua \u00ebsht\u00eb shum\u00eb mir\u00eb, se mund t\u00eb flas polonisht\u2026<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><strong>Kryeministri Edi Rama:\u00a0 \u00a0<\/strong>Jo, jo, miliona europian\u00ebt q\u00eb erdh\u00ebn n\u00eb Britani erdh\u00ebn duke i sjell\u00eb p\u00ebrfitime t\u00eb m\u00ebdha Britanis\u00eb.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><strong>Timothy Garton Ash:\u00a0\u00a0<\/strong>Jam shum\u00eb dakord.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><strong>Kryeministri Edi Rama:\u00a0<\/strong>Sepse, e pat\u00eb, kur filluan t\u00eb largoheshin pas Brexit-it, ju duheshin shofer\u00eb kamioni.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><strong>Timothy Garton Ash:\u00a0\u00a0<\/strong>Por, \u00e7do analist i Brexit-it do ta thoshte k\u00ebt\u00eb \u2013 dhe ata jan\u00eb njer\u00ebz q\u00eb jan\u00eb thjesht n\u00eb k\u00ebrkim t\u00eb s\u00eb v\u00ebrtet\u00ebs \u2013 se nj\u00eb nga arsyet pse njer\u00ebzit e dhan\u00eb vot\u00ebn p\u00ebr Brexit-in ishte shkalla e emigracionit, sidomos nga brenda BE-s\u00eb dhe k\u00ebtu q\u00ebndron ndryshimi nga vendet e tjera europiane. \u00cbsht\u00eb thjesht fakt dhe nuk mendoj q\u00eb Toni do ta kishte problem\u2026<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><strong>Kryeministri Edi Rama:\u00a0 \u00a0<\/strong>Jo, jo, nuk e di se \u00e7far\u00eb ai mendon p\u00ebr k\u00ebt\u00eb. Nuk kemi folur sakt\u00ebsisht p\u00ebr k\u00ebt\u00eb, por\u2026 mir\u00eb, nuk do debatoj me ju, sepse do t\u00eb ishte pretencioze dhe ndoshta shum\u00eb sip\u00ebrfaq\u00ebsore nga ana ime. Faleminderit q\u00eb m\u00eb that\u00eb se ka shpres\u00eb p\u00ebr Britanin\u00eb. Ky \u00ebsht\u00eb lajm i mir\u00eb. Dua t\u00eb kaloj te di\u00e7ka tjet\u00ebr, q\u00eb e keni shum\u00eb p\u00ebr zem\u00ebr dhe q\u00eb un\u00eb e kam shum\u00eb p\u00ebr zem\u00ebr, po prap\u00eb ju jeni ai q\u00eb i thoni pushtetit t\u00eb v\u00ebrtet\u00ebn, un\u00eb jam nj\u00eb ish-fol\u00ebs i s\u00eb v\u00ebrtet\u00ebs p\u00ebr pushtetin t\u00eb cilit tani i duhet t\u00eb merret me pushtetin dhe, ndonj\u00ebher\u00eb, kjo \u00ebsht\u00eb nj\u00eb luft\u00eb e brendshme e fort\u00eb. Po flas k\u00ebtu p\u00ebr lirin\u00eb e fjal\u00ebs, q\u00eb e keni fort p\u00ebr zem\u00ebr, madje edhe keni shkruar \u201cRoli i Europ\u00ebs n\u00eb politik\u00eb, diversitet dhe fjal\u00ebn e lir\u00eb\u201d dhe keni th\u00ebn\u00eb di\u00e7ka p\u00ebr t\u00eb cil\u00ebn dua t\u2019ju pyes, p\u00ebr ta shtjelluar pak. Keni shkruar dhe citoj, \u201cna duhet nj\u00eb rrug\u00eb p\u00ebr t\u00eb kombinuar lirin\u00eb dhe diversitetin\u201d dhe ky, n\u00ebse nuk gaboj, \u00ebsht\u00eb nj\u00eb reflektim i nj\u00eb shqet\u00ebsimi tuajit, sesi po abuzohet me lirin\u00eb e fjal\u00ebs, pa mas\u00eb, apo jo? Ju thoni, \u201cm\u00ebnyra p\u00ebr t\u00eb kombinuar lirin\u00eb dhe diversitetin, \u00ebsht\u00eb duke pasur liri m\u00eb t\u00eb madhe, por edhe liri m\u00eb t\u00eb mir\u00eb, t\u00eb fjal\u00ebs\u201d. Tani, kjo \u00ebsht\u00eb nj\u00eb m\u00ebnyr\u00eb shum\u00eb fisnike p\u00ebr ta par\u00eb k\u00ebt\u00eb, po a \u00ebsht\u00eb e mundur? Dhe si mund t\u00eb jet\u00eb e mundur, kur \u2013 meq\u00eb ra fjala, duke folur p\u00ebr podkastin p\u00ebrpara se t\u00eb fillonim, m\u00eb that\u00eb q\u00eb keni qen\u00eb n\u00eb shum\u00eb podkaste dhe e shihni si nj\u00eb m\u00ebnyr\u00eb t\u00eb mir\u00eb p\u00ebr t\u00eb shkuar te veshi i njer\u00ebzve, sepse njer\u00ebzit, shumic\u00ebn e koh\u00ebs, nuk lexojn\u00eb dot m\u00eb shum\u00eb se dy faqe, nd\u00ebrkoh\u00eb q\u00eb mund t\u00eb d\u00ebgjojn\u00eb. Pra si mund t\u00eb jet\u00eb m\u00eb e mir\u00eb liria e fjal\u00ebs n\u00eb nj\u00eb bot\u00eb ku shkalla e d\u00ebgjimit nga njer\u00ebzit po ulet posht\u00eb e m\u00eb posht\u00eb dhe mund\u00ebsia p\u00ebr t\u00eb th\u00ebn\u00eb gjith\u00e7ka q\u00eb d\u00ebshiron t\u00eb thuash, madje pa e menduar dy her\u00eb, vet\u00ebm rritet e rritet.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><strong>Timothy Garton Ash:\u00a0<\/strong>Liri fjale nuk do t\u00eb thot\u00eb q\u00eb kushdo mund t\u00eb thot\u00eb \u00e7do gj\u00eb kudo dhe n\u00eb \u00e7far\u00ebdo konteksti. Ka pasur gjithnj\u00eb kufij p\u00ebr k\u00ebt\u00eb dhe \u00ebsht\u00eb lidhur p\u00ebrher\u00eb me dy gj\u00ebra. Pyetja e par\u00eb: \u201cSa e lir\u00eb duhet t\u00eb jet\u00eb fjala?\u201d Pyetja e dyte: \u201cSi duhet t\u00eb jet\u00eb fjala e lir\u00eb?\u201d. Me fjal\u00eb t\u00eb tjera, si duhet t\u00eb flasim? Si duhet t\u00eb zgjedhim t\u00eb flasim me nj\u00ebri-tjetrin, duke pasur parasysh kufijt\u00eb shum\u00eb bujar\u00eb q\u00eb i duhet shtetit t\u00eb lejoj\u00eb. Tani, k\u00ebtu, problemi \u00ebsht\u00eb, po \u00ebsht\u00eb mrekulli q\u00eb ju edhe un\u00eb po flasim drejtp\u00ebrdrejt me nj\u00ebri-tjetrin, por shumica e fjal\u00ebve tona sot nd\u00ebrmjet\u00ebsohet nga platformat e m\u00ebdha, nga Facebook-u ose Google ose Twitter-i dhe ata nd\u00ebrmjet\u00ebsojn\u00eb n\u00eb nj\u00eb m\u00ebnyr\u00eb t\u00eb till\u00eb q\u00eb na furnizon duke privilegjuar mendimet m\u00eb ekstreme. Algoritmet e tyre i optimizojn\u00eb (ekstremet) p\u00ebr t\u00eb marr\u00eb v\u00ebmendje, e p\u00ebr rrjedhoj\u00eb, fitime. Struktura e k\u00ebsaj m\u00ebnyre t\u00eb atyre q\u00eb un\u00eb i quaj superfuqit\u00eb private, platformave, po na jep nj\u00eb fjal\u00eb m\u00eb t\u00eb keqe, n\u00eb vend t\u00eb nj\u00eb fjale m\u00eb t\u00eb mir\u00eb dhe \u00ebsht\u00eb ajo q\u00eb un\u00eb e quaj nj\u00eb problem t\u00eb thell\u00eb strukturor. Merr Twitter-in, p\u00ebr shembull \u2013 ju jeni n\u00eb Twitter, apo jo\u2026<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><strong>Kryeministri Edi Rama:\u00a0 <\/strong>Po, po.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><strong>Timothy Garton Ash:\u00a0<\/strong>Un\u00eb e dua absolutisht Twitter-in, sepse ishte si sheshi i lasht\u00eb i \u201cpazarit\u201d grek, q\u00eb do t\u00eb thot\u00eb, ishte nj\u00eb platform\u00eb publike ku njer\u00ebzit flisnin publikisht. N\u00ebse thonin ndonj\u00eb budallall\u00ebk, kund\u00ebrshtoheshin. Dhe merr Elon Musk, k\u00ebrkon t\u00eb b\u00ebj\u00eb m\u00eb shum\u00eb para dhe cil\u00ebsia e platform\u00ebs \u00ebsht\u00eb ulur shum\u00eb. Kjo \u00ebsht\u00eb vet\u00ebm pjes\u00eb e p\u00ebrgjigjes, por, mendoj, nj\u00eb\u00a0 pjes\u00eb e r\u00ebnd\u00ebsishme e p\u00ebrgjigjes.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><strong>Kryeministri Edi Rama:\u00a0 \u00a0<\/strong>Po, po kjo nuk \u00ebsht\u00eb tamam p\u00ebrgjigjja p\u00ebr\u00a0 \u201cSi-n\u00eb\u201d, kjo \u00ebsht\u00eb p\u00ebrgjigja p\u00ebr \u201cPse-n\u00eb\u201d. Absolutisht q\u00eb kjo \u00ebsht\u00eb nj\u00eb prej arsyeve se pse cil\u00ebsia e fjal\u00ebs s\u00eb lir\u00eb po p\u00ebrkeq\u00ebsohet, sasia e komunikimit t\u00eb keq, n\u00ebse mund ta them k\u00ebshtu, po rritet dhe ndikimi te t\u00eb rinjt\u00eb \u00ebsht\u00eb i tmerrsh\u00ebm. M\u00eb kujtohet gjithnj\u00eb takimi im i par\u00eb me bot\u00ebn e fjal\u00ebs e lir\u00eb. Kur m\u2019u k\u00ebrkua t\u00eb botoja di\u00e7ka n\u00eb \u201cThe Guardian\u201d. Ishin vitet \u201990 dhe kjo lidhej me nj\u00eb problem q\u00eb kisha hasur p\u00ebr marrjen e nj\u00eb vize nga ambasada britanike n\u00eb Paris. M\u00eb kishte ftuar nj\u00eb mik n\u00eb Lond\u00ebr. Miku im ishte i zem\u00ebruar dhe m\u00eb thot\u00eb: \u201cShkruaj di\u00e7ka dhe un\u00eb do i k\u00ebrkoj \u2018The Guardian\u2019 ta botoj\u00eb\u201d. Ishte gj\u00eb e madhe. K\u00ebshtu, shkrova di\u00e7ka. N\u00eb at\u00eb koh\u00eb nuk kishte telefona celular\u00eb. E d\u00ebrgova dhe kur u ktheva n\u00eb atelien\u00eb time n\u00eb Paris, po d\u00ebgjoja sekretarin\u00eb telefonike dhe d\u00ebgjoj nj\u00eb z\u00eb: \u201cZ. Rama, po ju marr nga \u2018The Guardian\u2019 dhe kam nevoj\u00eb t\u00eb flas me ju, ndaj artikulli nuk mund t\u00eb botohet nes\u00ebr, sepse duhet t\u00eb flasim.\u2019<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">Thash\u00eb me vete, \u201c\u00e7far\u00eb ka ndodhur me artikullin\u201d, po ishte shum\u00eb von\u00eb. E marr ose m\u00eb merr n\u00eb telefon n\u00eb m\u00ebngjes dhe m\u00eb pyet p\u00ebr titullin q\u00eb donin, i cili ishte m\u00eb se n\u00eb rregull dhe p\u00ebr dy ndryshime krejt t\u00eb vogla, q\u00eb ishin m\u00eb shum\u00eb se n\u00eb rregull. U befasova dhe iu thash\u00eb: \u201cJu nuk e botuat artikullin, se donit autorizimin tim p\u00ebr k\u00ebto ndryshime?\u201d \u201cSigurisht\u201d.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">P\u00ebrvoja e dyt\u00eb q\u00eb pata s\u00ebrish me bot\u00ebn e fjal\u00ebs s\u00eb lir\u00eb ishte me revist\u00ebn, \u201cThe New Yorker\u201d, kur Jane Kramer erdhi p\u00ebr t\u00eb shkruar nj\u00eb portret timin, asokohe kryetar bashkie. Ajo q\u00ebndroi nj\u00eb jav\u00eb k\u00ebtu, pyeti njer\u00ebzit andej-k\u00ebtej, foli me mua dhe, p\u00ebrpara sesa t\u00eb largohej, m\u00eb thot\u00eb: \u201cEdi, duhet t\u00eb kalosh edhe nj\u00eb proces q\u00eb nuk \u00ebsht\u00eb nj\u00eb p\u00ebrvoj\u00eb e k\u00ebndshme, por \u00ebsht\u00eb kontrolli i fakteve\u201d. Kurr\u00eb nuk kisha d\u00ebgjuar p\u00ebr kontrollin e fakteve. M\u00eb pas nis\u00ebn t\u00eb m\u00eb d\u00ebrgonin pyetje. N\u00eb nj\u00eb pik\u00eb t\u00eb artikullit, kur kisha folur me t\u00eb, isha shprehur se kur kisha takuar dik\u00eb, ajo ishte e veshur me t\u00eb kuqe. Ata i kishin \u00e7uar e-mail personit n\u00eb fjal\u00eb: \u201cA jeni dakord me citimin, q\u00eb ishit veshur me t\u00eb kuqe?\u201d.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">I shkrova Jane-it dhe i them: \u201cJane, ky nuk \u00ebsht\u00eb kontroll faktesh, kjo \u00ebsht\u00eb KGB\u201d. P\u00ebrgjigjja e saj ishte: \u201cHahaha, duhet t\u00eb ket\u00eb ndonj\u00eb arsye pse \u2018The New Yorker\u2019 nuk ka humbur kurr\u00eb nj\u00eb \u00e7\u00ebshtje n\u00eb gjykat\u00eb\u201d. Tani, ndjes\u00eb, po t\u00eb kalosh nga kjo te nj\u00eb kazan ku ziejn\u00eb dokrra gjithfar\u00ebsoj, gjithfar\u00eblloj mendimesh t\u00eb neveritshme, pa filt\u00ebr, q\u00eb nuk jan\u00eb as mendime, po thjesht t\u00eb vjella q\u00eb i nxjerrin nga barku te publiku\u2026 jan\u00eb dy civilizime kryek\u00ebput ndryshe.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><strong>Timothy Garton Ash:\u00a0\u00a0<\/strong>Po. \u201cThe Guardian\u201d vazhdon akoma dhe ka ende\u2026<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><strong>Kryeministri Edi Rama<\/strong>:\u00a0 E di, kam pasur edhe nj\u00eb p\u00ebrvoj\u00eb t\u00eb tret\u00eb me gjerman\u00ebt. Vitin e kaluar, dy gazetar\u00eb erdh\u00ebn tek un\u00eb, ishin nga Der Spiegel,\u00a0 dhe zhvilluan nj\u00eb intervist\u00eb, m\u00eb k\u00ebrkuan ta rishikoja dhe iu thash\u00eb: \u201cKjo \u00ebsht\u00eb e pabesueshme, \u00ebsht\u00eb fantastike. Nuk m\u00eb ka ndodhur kjo me gazetar\u00ebt koh\u00ebt e fundit\u201d.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><strong>Gazetarja m\u00eb tha: \u201c<\/strong>Ne vazhdojm\u00eb ta b\u00ebjm\u00eb k\u00ebt\u00eb, por, ki parasysh, se kur ndodhin shkurtime t\u00eb personelit n\u00eb bot\u00ebn e publikimeve, kontrolluesit e fakteve jan\u00eb t\u00eb par\u00ebt q\u00eb shkurtohen\u201d.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><strong>Timothy Garton Ash:\u00a0\u00a0<\/strong>Problemi \u00ebsht\u00eb ky, q\u00eb motoja e \u201cThe Guardian\u201d\u2026<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><strong>Kryeministri Edi Rama:\u00a0 \u00a0<\/strong>Besoj, ka dashur t\u00eb thot\u00eb q\u00eb nuk do t\u00eb vazhdoj edhe p\u00ebr gjat\u00eb k\u00ebshtu.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><strong>Timothy Garton Ash:\u00a0<\/strong>Problemi \u00ebsht\u00eb ky, q\u00eb motoja e botuesit t\u00eb \u201cThe Guardian\u201d, n\u00eb shekullin e madh t\u00eb 19-t\u00eb dhe fillimin e shekullit t\u00eb 20-t\u00eb, ishte \u201ckomenti \u00ebsht\u00eb i lir\u00eb, po faktet jan\u00eb t\u00eb shenjta\u201d. Tani thon\u00eb: \u201cKomenti \u00ebsht\u00eb i lir\u00eb, po faktet jan\u00eb t\u00eb shtrenjta\u201d. Me fjal\u00eb t\u00eb tjera, do t\u00eb k\u00ebrkonte nj\u00eb investim t\u00eb jasht\u00ebzakonsh\u00ebm t\u00eb koh\u00ebs, p\u00ebrpjekjeve dhe parave p\u00ebr t\u00eb ruajtur faktet, n\u00ebse mund ta them k\u00ebshtu. Pata nj\u00eb bised\u00eb k\u00ebtu n\u00eb Tiran\u00eb nja dy dit\u00eb m\u00eb par\u00eb dhe nj\u00eb miku im m\u00eb tha: \u201cN\u00ebse jam jasht\u00eb vendit dhe n\u00eb Shqip\u00ebri ndodh di\u00e7ka, po t\u00eb shoh vet\u00ebm median shqiptare n\u00eb internet, e kam shum\u00eb t\u00eb v\u00ebshtir\u00eb t\u00eb gjej se ku jan\u00eb faktet\u201d. Sepse nuk jan\u00eb nj\u00eb burim i besuesh\u00ebm q\u00eb kontrollon faktet.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><strong>Kryeministri Edi Rama:\u00a0 \u00a0<\/strong>Ju po e plot\u00ebsoni panoram\u00ebn dhe faleminderit p\u00ebr k\u00ebt\u00eb. Kthehem prap\u00eb te pyetja: \u201cSi dreqin mund t\u00eb kemi nj\u00eb fjal\u00eb m\u00eb t\u00eb mir\u00eb?!\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><strong>Timothy Garton Ash: \u00a0<\/strong>Mir\u00eb\u2026<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><strong>Kryeministri Edi Rama:\u00a0 \u00a0<\/strong>N\u00eb k\u00ebt\u00eb lloj atmosfere, q\u00eb nuk e inkurajon p\u00ebrmir\u00ebsimin e fjal\u00ebs, nuk ushtron trysni p\u00ebr p\u00ebrmir\u00ebsimin e fjal\u00ebs, nuk k\u00ebrkon t\u00eb p\u00ebrmir\u00ebsoj\u00eb fjal\u00ebn dhe ku liria e p\u00ebrhapjes s\u00eb fjal\u00ebs e\u00a0 ka z\u00ebvend\u00ebsuar krejt\u00ebsisht lirin\u00eb e fjal\u00ebs. Gazetat, njer\u00ebzit q\u00eb punojn\u00eb n\u00eb gazeta thon\u00eb: \u201cPo t\u00eb rri, t\u00eb kontrolloj, e humba, se e boton tjetri. Pra lajmi del, \u00e7far\u00ebdo q\u00eb t\u00eb jet\u00eb, del dhe un\u00eb duhet ta ndjek\u201d.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><strong>Timothy Garton Ash:\u00a0\u00a0<\/strong>Do ta trajtoj nga dy an\u00eb. S\u00eb pari, nga ajo q\u00eb nisa t\u00eb thosha, kushtet e prodhimit, me fjal\u00eb t\u00eb tjera, si vijn\u00eb k\u00ebto gj\u00ebra te ne. A vijn\u00eb nga platformat e m\u00ebdha, a vijn\u00eb nga gazetat, apo nga televizioni, n\u00eb rregull? Pra, n\u00ebse ke \u201cThe Guardian\u201d, \u201cThe Economist\u201d, \u201cFT\u201d dhe BBC-n\u00eb t\u00ebnde, ku k\u00ebto fakte kontrollohen, ti i jep shoq\u00ebris\u00eb ajrin e past\u00ebr t\u00eb fjal\u00ebs s\u00eb mir\u00eb.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">Tre vjet m\u00eb par\u00eb, ShBA-ja dhe Britania ishin t\u00eb dyja tej mase t\u00eb polarizuara, shoq\u00ebri me ndasi t\u00eb skajshme, Britania p\u00ebr shkak t\u00eb Brexit-it. Sot, Britania nuk ka m\u00eb lidhje me at\u00eb ndarje, nd\u00ebrsa ShBA-ja \u00ebsht\u00eb edhe m\u00eb e ndar\u00eb. Pse? Ne kemi BBC-n\u00eb, kemi nj\u00eb media t\u00eb besueshme e t\u00eb arsyeshme, ku njer\u00ebzit mund t\u00eb b\u00ebjn\u00eb v\u00ebrtet dallimin midis fakteve, histeris\u00eb dhe trillimit.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">Ana tjet\u00ebr e k\u00ebsaj \u00ebsht\u00eb \u2013 dhe me vjen keq q\u00eb e them k\u00ebt\u00eb \u2013 edukimi. Po t\u00eb hysh n\u00eb nj\u00eb ushqimore dhe t\u00eb blesh nj\u00eb sandui\u00e7, ke nj\u00eb etiket\u00eb q\u00eb t\u2019i tregon me sakt\u00ebsi t\u00eb gjith\u00eb p\u00ebrb\u00ebr\u00ebsit. N\u00ebse je nj\u00eb f\u00ebmij\u00eb dhe hyn n\u00eb internet e merr nj\u00eb informacion, nuk ke kurrfar\u00eb ideje se \u00e7far\u00eb p\u00ebrmban dhe nga vjen. Pra, do ta shihja nga t\u00eb dyja k\u00ebndv\u00ebshtrimet, nga ai i konsumatorit dhe ai i prodhuesit.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><strong>Kryeministri Edi Rama:\u00a0\u00a0 \u00a0<\/strong>Nuk e di. Po e mbyll k\u00ebt\u00eb pjes\u00eb, duke kujtuar nj\u00eb burr\u00eb t\u00eb madh, nj\u00eb person tjet\u00ebr admirues fanatik i t\u00eb cilit jam, e q\u00eb nuk \u00ebsht\u00eb m\u00eb gjall\u00eb, Michel Rocard. Politikan i madh francez, kryeministri m\u00eb i mir\u00eb francez sipas meje, pas Luft\u00ebs s\u00eb Dyt\u00eb Bot\u00ebrore dhe nj\u00eb nga mendimtar\u00ebt m\u00eb t\u00eb m\u00ebdhenj politik\u00eb, i cili, p\u00ebrpara se t\u00eb vdiste, dha nj\u00eb intervist\u00eb dhe tha: \u201cInterneti na ka marr\u00eb gj\u00ebn\u00eb m\u00eb t\u00eb \u00e7muar q\u00eb na ka dh\u00ebn\u00eb Zoti, koh\u00ebn p\u00ebr t\u00eb dyshuar\u201d. Nuk ka m\u00eb koh\u00eb p\u00ebr t\u00eb v\u00ebn\u00eb asgj\u00eb n\u00eb dyshim. Duhet t\u00eb jesh aty gati me an\u00ebn t\u00ebnde t\u00eb historis\u00eb, gati p\u00ebr sulm. T\u00eb gjitha k\u00ebto platforma q\u00eb supozohet, supozohet t\u00eb jen\u00eb hap\u00ebsira t\u00eb reja t\u00eb liris\u00eb s\u00eb fjal\u00ebs dhe t\u00eb dialogut demokratik, jan\u00eb \u00e7do gj\u00eb p\u00ebrve\u00e7se platforma dialogu. \u00c7far\u00eb nuk ka aty\u2026 p\u00ebrve\u00e7 dialogut. Ka llogore, ka njer\u00ebz n\u00eb llogore, gjithsecili i veshur me parzmoren e bindjeve t\u00eb veta p\u00ebr t\u00eb kritikuar dhe t\u00eb gjith\u00eb jan\u00eb gati t\u00eb q\u00ebllojn\u00eb drejt llogores tjet\u00ebr me \u00e7far\u00eb u vjen p\u00ebr goje e n\u00eb mend, pa asnj\u00eb filt\u00ebr. \u00cbsht\u00eb katastrof\u00eb. Nejse. Un\u00eb jam m\u00eb pesimist se ju p\u00ebr k\u00ebt\u00eb dhe falemnderit q\u00eb m\u00eb injektuat pak optimiz\u00ebm. S\u2019e di sa do zgjas\u00eb, por shpresoj deri nes\u00ebr.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">Le t\u00eb shkojm\u00eb tani te libri. Keni botuar nj\u00eb lib\u00ebr, q\u00eb \u00ebsht\u00eb edhe n\u00eb shqip tani. P\u00ebrkthimi n\u00eb shqip \u00ebsht\u00eb \u201cVendet e mia (My Countries) \u2013 Nj\u00eb histori personale e Europ\u00ebs\u201d. E lash\u00eb p\u00ebr n\u00eb fund, sepse e nisa me nj\u00eb britanik dhe doja ta p\u00ebrfundoja me nj\u00eb europian. Por\u00a0 nuk m\u00eb lat\u00eb ta b\u00ebja gjith\u00e7ka si\u00e7 e kisha n\u00eb plan, q\u00eb \u00ebsht\u00eb m\u00eb se n\u00eb rregull. Dua ta nis k\u00ebt\u00eb pjes\u00eb me k\u00ebt\u00eb makin\u00eb, sepse kopertina m\u00eb duket shum\u00eb e bukur dhe m\u00eb duket e jasht\u00ebzakonshme kjo makin\u00eb, e cila, mesa duket, vjen nga nj\u00eb koh\u00eb tjet\u00ebr. Dua t\u2019ju pyes, a \u00ebsht\u00eb kjo makin\u00eb nj\u00eb foto qe keni gjetur ju apo dizenjatori juaj grafik p\u00ebr t\u00eb lidhur n\u00eb nj\u00eb far\u00eb m\u00ebnyre Europ\u00ebn e vjet\u00ebr me at\u00eb t\u00eb ren\u00eb apo jeni ju shoferi k\u00ebtu?<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><strong>Timothy Garton Ash:\u00a0 \u00a0<\/strong>Jam shum\u00eb i k\u00ebnaqur q\u00eb e pikas\u00ebt k\u00ebt\u00eb kopertin\u00eb, sepse\u2026<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><strong>Kryeministri Edi Rama:\u00a0 <\/strong>\u00cbsht\u00eb shum\u00eb e bukur.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><strong>Timothy Garton Ash:\u00a0\u00a0 \u00a0<\/strong>\u2026kopertina shqiptare \u00ebsht\u00eb unike.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><strong>Kryeministri Edi Rama:\u00a0 \u00a0<\/strong>Po, sepse pash\u00eb versionin anglisht dhe nuk ishte.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><strong>Timothy Garton Ash:\u00a0<\/strong>Kjo \u00ebsht\u00eb vet\u00ebm n\u00eb shqip dhe shkak ishte botuesja ime e mrekullueshme shqiptare, Arlinda Dudaj. Un\u00eb p\u00ebrshkruaj her\u00ebn e par\u00eb fare q\u00eb kalova Kanalin anglez nga ky ishull i \u00e7uditsh\u00ebm e i larg\u00ebt, Britania, drejt asaj q\u00eb at\u00ebher\u00eb e quanim Europa kontinentale dhe isha me k\u00ebt\u00eb makin\u00eb, q\u00eb njihej si \u201cHillman Super Minx\u201d. Nj\u00eb makin\u00eb jo fort e mir\u00eb, e ngiste babai im dhe Arlinda gjeti nj\u00eb foto t\u00eb kroskotit t\u00eb asaj makine. Pra, ajo \u00ebsht\u00eb makina me t\u00eb cil\u00ebn erdha p\u00ebr her\u00eb t\u00eb par\u00eb n\u00eb k\u00ebt\u00eb vend t\u00eb \u00e7uditsh\u00ebm, q\u00eb quhet Europ\u00eb.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><strong>Kryeministri Edi Rama:\u00a0 \u00a0<\/strong>Pra, Arlinda e gjeti?<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><strong>Timothy Garton Ash:\u00a0\u00a0 \u00a0<\/strong>Po.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><strong>Kryeministri Edi Rama:\u00a0 <\/strong>Chapeau (respekte) Arlind\u00ebs.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><strong>Timothy Garton Ash:\u00a0\u00a0 \u00a0<\/strong>Chapeau! Absolutisht fantastike<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><strong>Kryeministri Edi Rama:\u00a0 \u00a0<\/strong>Po e ndihmuat ju ta gjente.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><strong>Timothy Garton Ash<\/strong>: E gjeti vet\u00eb.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><strong>Kryeministri Edi Rama: <\/strong>Ju nuk e dinit?<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><strong>Timothy Garton Ash: <\/strong>Un\u00eb vet\u00ebm sa kisha p\u00ebrshkruar makin\u00ebn n\u00eb lib\u00ebr.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><strong>Kryeministri Edi Rama:\u00a0 <\/strong>Dhe nuk e dinit q\u00eb e kishte gjetur?<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><strong>Timothy Garton Ash: <\/strong>M\u00eb d\u00ebrguan nj\u00eb e-mail dhe aty ishte kopertina. E mrekullueshme.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><strong>Kryeministri Edi Rama:\u00a0<\/strong>Fantastike! Ky \u00ebsht\u00eb v\u00ebrtet nj\u00eb lib\u00ebr q\u00eb m\u00eb duhet ta lexoj deri n\u00eb fund. E kam par\u00eb paksa, duket magjeps\u00ebs. Dua t\u2019ju pyes pak p\u00ebr Europ\u00ebn, por duke u hedhur disi p\u00ebrtej dy an\u00ebve t\u00eb ekzistenc\u00ebs suaj si historian i s\u00eb tashmes dhe si historian i s\u00eb shkuar\u00ebs. Dua q\u00eb t\u00eb jeni historian i s\u00eb ardhmes. M\u00eb thoni, ku do t\u00eb jet\u00eb Europa n\u00eb 10 vjet?<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><strong>Timothy Garton Ash:\u00a0<\/strong>Pik\u00eb s\u00eb pari, shum\u00eb shpejt rreth titullit. Mrekullia e t\u00eb qenit europian \u00ebsht\u00eb se mund t\u00eb ndihesh n\u00eb atdhe, edhe kur je jasht\u00eb. Jam n\u00eb Tiran\u00eb, jam n\u00eb Paris, jam n\u00eb Varshav\u00eb, n\u00eb Madrid; \u00ebsht\u00eb e qart\u00eb q\u00eb jam jasht\u00eb vendit, por jam n\u00eb sht\u00ebpi, ndaj quhet atdhe. Dhe kjo \u00ebsht\u00eb nj\u00eb gj\u00eb unike q\u00eb kemi nd\u00ebrtuar, q\u00eb \u00ebsht\u00eb ky kombinim i unikes me diversitetin. Kjo na \u00e7on te pyetja juaj, q\u00eb, tanim\u00eb, pas shum\u00eb vitesh gjat\u00eb t\u00eb cilave Europa Per\u00ebndimore nuk e ka marr\u00eb realisht me aq seriozitet zgjerimin drejt Lindjes \u2013 do thoja q\u00eb prej vitit 2008. Kroacia hyri n\u00eb BE, por ju e dini k\u00ebt\u00eb m\u00eb mir\u00eb se \u00e7dokush, Maqedonia u b\u00eb kandidate q\u00eb prej vitit 2005. Q\u00eb nga pushtimi n\u00eb shkall\u00eb t\u00eb gjer\u00eb i Ukrain\u00ebs m\u00eb 24 shkurt 2022, Europa u kthye ta merrte edhe nj\u00ebher\u00eb seriozisht zgjerimin drejt Lindjes. Herakliti, me q\u00eb ra fjala, historian i lasht\u00eb grek, thoshte \u201clufta \u00ebsht\u00eb n\u00ebna e t\u00eb gjitha gj\u00ebrave\u201d. Edhe nj\u00ebher\u00eb v\u00ebrtetohet. Kjo luft\u00eb e madhe \u00ebsht\u00eb zanafilla e k\u00ebtij ndryshimi dhe do t\u00eb thoja q\u00eb kemi edhe nj\u00ebher\u00eb nj\u00eb mund\u00ebsi p\u00ebr t\u00eb hedhur at\u00eb hapin e madh p\u00ebrpara, q\u00eb hodh\u00ebm n\u00eb vitet \u201990 dhe n\u00eb fillim t\u00eb viteve \u20182000, me zgjerimin e par\u00eb t\u00eb madh drejt Lindjes t\u00eb Bashkimit Europian dhe t\u00eb NATO-s deri te vendet baltike e te Rumania dhe Bullgaria. Pra, ky \u00ebsht\u00eb shansi. Rreziku \u00ebsht\u00eb se lufta n\u00eb Ukrain\u00eb na ka treguar gjithashtu se gjendemi n\u00eb nj\u00eb bot\u00eb t\u00eb v\u00ebshtir\u00eb dhe t\u00eb rrezikshme p\u00ebr Per\u00ebndimin. K\u00ebshtu, kemi periudh\u00ebn e pasluft\u00ebs, nga viti 1945 deri n\u00eb vitin 1989. Kemi at\u00eb q\u00eb un\u00eb e quaj periudha pas Murit, nga r\u00ebnia e Murit t\u00eb Berlinit, nga viti 1989 deri m\u00eb 24 shkurt 2022. Tani jemi n\u00eb nj\u00eb periudh\u00eb t\u00eb re. Si do t\u00eb quhet? Mendoj se mund t\u00eb quhet periudha post-per\u00ebndimore, sepse, befas, zbulojm\u00eb se kemi Rusin\u00eb q\u00eb b\u00ebn nj\u00eb luft\u00eb mizore p\u00ebr rikolonizimin e Ukrain\u00ebs. Po Kina nuk shqet\u00ebsohet, India nuk shqet\u00ebsohet, Turqia q\u00ebndron midis n\u00eb nj\u00eb far\u00eb m\u00ebnyre, Afrika e Jugut \u00ebsht\u00eb e lumtur t\u00eb zhvilloj\u00eb st\u00ebrvitje t\u00eb flot\u00ebs ushtarake bashk\u00eb me Rusin\u00eb dhe Kin\u00ebn, Brazili nuk shqet\u00ebsohet aq shum\u00eb. Pra, po k\u00ebrkojm\u00eb t\u00eb nd\u00ebrtojm\u00eb k\u00ebt\u00eb Europ\u00eb m\u00eb t\u00eb madhe e m\u00eb t\u00eb mir\u00eb, por n\u00eb nj\u00eb bot\u00eb fuqish t\u00eb mesme e t\u00eb m\u00ebdha joper\u00ebndimore, q\u00eb kan\u00eb nj\u00eb optik\u00eb mjaft t\u00eb ndryshme p\u00ebr m\u00ebnyr\u00ebn si duhet t\u00eb jen\u00eb gj\u00ebrat. P\u00ebr mua, kjo \u00ebsht\u00eb sfida.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><strong>Kryeministri Edi Rama:\u00a0<\/strong>Po, por pyetja ishte: \u201cM\u00eb thoni, ku do t\u00eb jet\u00eb Europa pas 10 vitesh?\u201d T\u00eb gjitha k\u00ebto jan\u00eb analiza. Tani, si do t\u00eb shkoj\u00eb? P\u00ebrpiquni q\u00eb, p\u00ebr nj\u00eb moment, t\u00eb jeni historian i s\u00eb ardhmes.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><strong>Timothy Garton Ash:\u00a0<\/strong>Historian i s\u00eb ardhmesh \u00ebsht\u00eb kontradikt\u00eb konceptesh. Historian i s\u00eb shkuar\u00ebs, historian i s\u00eb tashmes\u2026<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><strong>Kryeministri Edi Rama<\/strong>:\u00a0E di, po, prap\u00eb, po ju sfidoj q\u00eb t\u2019i mbijetoni k\u00ebsaj kontradikte n\u00eb koncepte.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><strong>Timothy Garton Ash:\u00a0<\/strong>Pik\u00eb s\u00eb pari, motoja e madhe e italianit arb\u00ebresh, Antonio Gramsci, ishte pesimizmi i intelektualit, optimizmi i vullnetit. Po t\u00eb shoh\u00ebsh gjith\u00eb k\u00ebto sfida, ndryshimi i klim\u00ebs, plus zhvillimet demokratike, \u00ebsht\u00eb e v\u00ebshtir\u00eb t\u00eb jesh intelektualisht optimist. Mendoj se, po t\u00eb mobilizohej nj\u00eb brez i ri europian\u00ebsh, jo vet\u00ebm p\u00ebr t\u00eb mbrojtur at\u00eb \u00e7far\u00eb kemi arritur, q\u00eb \u00ebsht\u00eb Europa m\u00eb e mir\u00eb q\u00eb kemi pasur, por edhe p\u00ebr ta zgjeruar dhe p\u00ebrmir\u00ebsuar at\u00eb, \u00e7ka \u00ebsht\u00eb plot\u00ebsisht e mundur, pas 10 vjet\u00ebsh, do t\u00eb mund t\u00eb shohim pas dhe t\u00eb kemi nj\u00eb Union prej 35 shtetesh dhe do t\u2019ia kemi arritur t\u00eb mbrojm\u00eb at\u00eb q\u00eb kemi, m\u00ebnyr\u00ebn e lir\u00eb t\u00eb jetes\u00ebs n\u00eb Europ\u00eb. \u00cbsht\u00eb e mundur, por \u00ebsht\u00eb n\u00eb dor\u00ebn ton\u00eb<strong>.<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><strong>Kryeministri Edi Rama:\u00a0 <\/strong>Mir\u00eb. S\u00eb pari, bie absolutisht dakord me ju, 100 p\u00ebr qind, por Europa si\u00e7 u konceptua dhe ashtu si\u00e7 \u00ebsht\u00eb shpalosur, bazuar n\u00eb vizionin dhe \u00ebndrr\u00ebn madh\u00ebshtore t\u00eb et\u00ebrve themelues, \u00ebsht\u00eb projekti m\u00eb i mrekulluesh\u00ebm politik i njer\u00ebzimit, sipas k\u00ebndv\u00ebshtrimit tim. Pra, njer\u00ebzit nuk kan\u00eb krijuar asnj\u00eb koncept m\u00eb t\u00eb mrekullueshme sesa Europa, Bashkimi Europian\u2026<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><strong>Timothy Garton Ash:\u00a0 <\/strong>N\u00eb politik\u00eb\u2026<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><strong>Kryeministri Edi Rama:\u00a0 \u00a0<\/strong>Po, politikisht. Po flas p\u00ebr Bashkimin Europian, absolutisht. Problemi, si\u00e7 e shoh un\u00eb, p\u00ebr t\u00eb shkuar drejt asaj q\u00eb ju p\u00ebrshkruat, nuk lidhet aq fort me brezin e ri t\u00eb europian\u00ebve dhe gjith\u00eb k\u00ebt\u00eb, por ka t\u00eb b\u00ebj\u00eb me di\u00e7ka q\u00eb, t\u00eb pakt\u00ebn, kryesisht, ndoshta jo vet\u00ebm me k\u00ebt\u00eb, di\u00e7ka q\u00eb edhe ju vet\u00eb e keni shkruar, q\u00eb vet\u00eb Europa duhet t\u00eb marr\u00eb disa nga tiparet e perandoris\u00eb. Ky \u00ebsht\u00eb \u00e7el\u00ebsi. Ma shpjegoni, se nj\u00eb perandori me 35 vende nuk e shoh t\u00eb funksionoj\u00eb. Me 35 n\u00eb drejtim, se perandoria mund t\u00eb ket\u00eb edhe 350, po \u00e7\u00ebshtja \u00ebsht\u00eb kush udh\u00ebheq.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><strong>Timothy Garton Ash:\u00a0\u00a0<\/strong>Ka nj\u00eb paradoks t\u00eb fort\u00eb. N\u00ebse Ukraina ia del t\u00eb mbroj\u00eb pavar\u00ebsin\u00eb e vet, ky do t\u00eb jet\u00eb fundi i perandoris\u00eb s\u00eb fundit t\u00eb madhe europiane, perandoris\u00eb ruse. Pra, p\u00ebr her\u00eb t\u00eb par\u00eb n\u00eb m\u00eb shum\u00eb se 600 vjet, do t\u00eb kemi nj\u00eb Europ\u00eb pa perandori n\u00eb det dhe n\u00eb tok\u00eb. Por, p\u00ebr ta arritur k\u00ebt\u00eb, vet\u00eb Europa duhet t\u00eb p\u00ebrftoj\u00eb disa prej tipareve t\u00eb nj\u00eb perandorie, sepse duhet t\u00eb jemi t\u00eb aft\u00eb t\u00eb mbrohemi, ndaj duhet t\u00eb jet\u00eb di\u00e7ka e re n\u00eb histori, q\u00eb \u00ebsht\u00eb nj\u00eb perandori johegjemoniste, nj\u00eb perandori pa asnj\u00eb hegjemoni, sidomos, n\u00ebse Shtetet e Bashkuara\u2026<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><strong>Kryeministri Edi Rama:\u00a0 \u00a0<\/strong>Nj\u00eb perandori e t\u00eb vullnetshm\u00ebve p\u00ebr t\u00eb qen\u00eb pjes\u00eb e saj.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><strong>Timothy Garton Ash:\u00a0\u00a0<\/strong>P\u00ebr t\u00eb qen\u00eb pjes\u00eb e saj dhe p\u00ebr t\u00eb b\u00ebr\u00eb m\u00eb shum\u00eb s\u00eb bashku.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><strong>Kryeministri Edi Rama:\u00a0 <\/strong>Sigurisht, po jo hegjemoniste n\u00eb k\u00ebt\u00eb drejtim.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><strong>Timothy Garton Ash:\u00a0<\/strong>Pa asnj\u00eb vend t\u00eb vet\u00ebm si hegjemonist, ky \u00ebsht\u00eb ky\u00e7i. Meq\u00eb ra fjala, gjasht\u00eb muaj m\u00eb par\u00eb isha ulur n\u00eb Ministrin\u00eb e Jashtme n\u00eb Kiev, me shum\u00eb roja p\u00ebrreth, me Ministrin e Jasht\u00ebm ukrainas, Dmytro Kuleba dhe m\u00eb thot\u00eb: \u201cP\u00ebr ne, Europa \u00ebsht\u00eb nj\u00eb perandori liberale, nj\u00eb perandori i paqt\u00eb, johegjemoniste, me p\u00eblqimin e t\u00eb gjith\u00ebve dhe ne duam t\u00eb largohemi nga ajo perandori e vjet\u00ebr e keqe, perandoria ruse dhe t\u00eb hyjm\u00eb n\u00eb perandorin\u00eb liberale\u201d. Po, q\u00eb ta b\u00ebjm\u00eb k\u00ebt\u00eb, duhet t\u00eb shkojm\u00eb p\u00ebrtej asaj q\u00eb kemi b\u00ebr\u00eb deri m\u00eb tani. Dhe, e di \u00e7far\u00eb? Askush nuk e ka b\u00ebr\u00eb k\u00ebt\u00eb deri m\u00eb sot. Ju that\u00eb sa i mrekulluesh\u00ebm \u00ebsht\u00eb Bashkimi Europian. Absolutisht, po. Ky \u00ebsht\u00eb argumenti i k\u00ebtij libri. Kjo \u00ebsht\u00eb Europa m\u00eb e mir\u00eb q\u00eb kemi pasur, por askush nuk ka mbledhur kaq shum\u00eb vende europiane n\u00eb nj\u00eb bashkim q\u00eb \u00ebsht\u00eb i fort\u00eb, i cili mund t\u00eb mbroj\u00eb veten, ekonomikisht dhe ushtarakisht, teknologjikisht dhe n\u00eb an\u00eb t\u00eb tjera, por q\u00eb, nj\u00ebkoh\u00ebsisht, nuk \u00ebsht\u00eb hegjemonist dhe ruan ekuilibrat midis unitetit dhe diversitetit. Pra, le t\u00eb mos e marrim leht\u00eb, kjo do t\u00eb ishte di\u00e7ka t\u00ebr\u00ebsisht e pashembullt n\u00eb histori.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><strong>Kryeministri Edi Rama:\u00a0\u00a0<\/strong>Po dhe \u00ebsht\u00eb shum\u00eb m\u00eb e leht\u00eb t\u00eb zgjidh\u00ebsh kontradikt\u00ebn midis t\u00eb qenit historian dhe t\u00eb shkruarit e historis\u00eb s\u00eb t\u00eb ardhmes sesa t\u00eb p\u00ebrfytyrosh nj\u00eb perandori funksionale, johegjemoniste dhe jo e udh\u00ebhequr nga nj\u00eb fuqi hegjemoniste, q\u00eb p\u00ebrmban 30, 40 a m\u00eb shum\u00eb shtete dhe q\u00eb \u00ebsht\u00eb n\u00eb gjendje t\u00eb ket\u00eb unitet, t\u00eb ket\u00eb vendimmarrje n\u00eb koh\u00eb reale, t\u00eb ket\u00eb udh\u00ebheqje t\u00eb guximshme dhe t\u00eb jet\u00eb efikase. K\u00ebshtu, q\u00eb, le ta l\u00ebm\u00eb k\u00ebtu.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><strong>Timothy Garton Ash:\u00a0<\/strong>Megjithat\u00eb, a mund t\u00eb them q\u00eb, n\u00eb vitin 1989, merrja pjes\u00eb n\u00eb tryeza t\u00eb panum\u00ebrta konferencash, ku njer\u00ebzit thonin, \u201cdo t\u00eb ishte krejt e pamundur t\u2019i fut\u00ebsh vendet Baltike n\u00eb Bashkimin Europian dhe n\u00eb NATO\u201d. Ne e b\u00ebm\u00eb t\u00eb pamundur\u00ebn.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><strong>Kryeministri Edi Rama:\u00a0 <\/strong>Nuk po them q\u00eb do t\u00eb jet\u00eb e pamundur. Thjesht, po them se duket m\u00eb e v\u00ebshtir\u00eb ta parafytyrosh, ta konceptosh, sesa t\u00eb shkruash historin\u00eb e s\u00eb ardhmes. Por, sigurisht, ndoshta, do t\u00eb vijn\u00eb njer\u00ebzit e aft\u00eb p\u00ebr ta b\u00ebr\u00eb k\u00ebt\u00eb.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><strong>Timothy Garton Ash:\u00a0<\/strong>E di, Madeleine Albright, ish-sekretarja amerikane e Shtetit tregon nj\u00eb histori, kur nj\u00eb diplomat i lart\u00eb francez i thot\u00eb: \u201cZonja Sekretare, e dim\u00eb q\u00eb do t\u00eb funksionoj\u00eb n\u00eb praktik\u00eb, po a do t\u00eb funksionoj\u00eb n\u00eb teori?\u201d Do thoja q\u00eb kjo \u00ebsht\u00eb e anasjellta. N\u00eb teori, ka gjas\u00eb t\u00eb jet\u00eb e mundur, \u00e7\u00ebshtja \u00ebsht\u00eb, pavar\u00ebsisht k\u00ebsaj, a mund ta b\u00ebjm\u00eb praktikisht?<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><strong>Kryeministri Edi Rama:\u00a0\u00a0<\/strong>Kan\u00eb kaluar p\u00ebrtej 50 e m\u00eb shum\u00eb minuta pa e v\u00ebn\u00eb re, t\u00eb pakt\u00ebn un\u00eb, se kan\u00eb mbetur vet\u00ebm 10 minuta dhe p\u00ebrvoja juaj, fusha juaj e interesave, hap\u00ebsira juaj e t\u00eb v\u00ebrtetave q\u00eb i thuhen pushtetit \u00ebsht\u00eb kaq e gjer\u00eb, saq\u00eb, p\u00ebr fat t\u00eb keq, do t\u00eb na duhet ta l\u00ebm\u00eb p\u00ebr nj\u00ebher\u00eb tjet\u00ebr. Shpresoj q\u00eb do t\u00eb ktheheni. Shqip\u00ebria do t\u00eb jet\u00eb pjes\u00eb e k\u00ebsaj \u00ebndrre, edhe kur t\u00eb gjith\u00eb t\u00eb tjer\u00ebt do ta braktisin \u00ebndrr\u00ebn. Ne k\u00ebt\u00eb b\u00ebjm\u00eb. U jemi gjithnj\u00eb besnik\u00eb perandorive. Do t\u2019i q\u00ebndrojm\u00eb besnik\u00eb derisa vdekja t\u00eb na ndaj\u00eb asaj perandorie q\u00eb po ngrihet apo do t\u00eb ngrihet. Por, p\u00ebr ta p\u00ebrmbyllur, do t\u2019i kthehem n\u00eb radh\u00eb t\u00eb fundit, radh\u00ebs suaj t\u00eb par\u00eb, t\u00eb par\u00ebs fare t\u00eb k\u00ebtij libri t\u00eb bukur, q\u00eb \u00ebsht\u00eb edhe p\u00ebrpara rreshtit t\u00eb par\u00eb. Do ta sjell k\u00ebtu p\u00ebr d\u00ebgjuesit dhe p\u00ebr diskutimin ton\u00eb citimin e Soren Kirkegardit. Do p\u00ebrpiqem tani ta p\u00ebrkthej direkt nga shqipja n\u00eb anglishte dhe shpresoj t\u2019ia dal: \u201c\u00cbsht\u00eb e v\u00ebrtet\u00eb ajo q\u00eb thot\u00eb filozofia, se jeta duhet kuptuar duke shkuar pas. Por me k\u00ebt\u00eb, harrojm\u00eb premis\u00ebn e dyt\u00eb, q\u00eb duhet jetuar duke shikuar p\u00ebrpara\u201d. A nuk mendoni se ajo q\u00eb ndodhi n\u00eb at\u00eb moment p\u00ebr t\u00eb cilin fol\u00ebm shum\u00eb sot, revolucionet kund\u00ebr totalitarizmit, ishte nj\u00eb forc\u00eb e madhe dhe nj\u00eb energji e jasht\u00ebzakonshme p\u00ebr t\u00eb par\u00eb p\u00ebrpara, pa pasur d\u00ebshir\u00eb m\u00eb p\u00ebr t\u00eb shikuar pas, nd\u00ebrkoh\u00eb q\u00eb, ajo q\u00eb\u00a0 jetojm\u00eb sot \u00ebsht\u00eb p\u00ebrher\u00eb e m\u00eb shum\u00eb pasoj\u00eb e kthimit t\u00eb kok\u00ebs pas, m\u00eb tep\u00ebr sesa e hedhjes s\u00eb shikimit para.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><strong>Timothy Garton Ash<\/strong>:\u00a0Ka qen\u00eb nj\u00eb anekdot\u00eb t\u00eb vjet\u00ebr europianolindore. M\u00eb duket se ishte n\u00eb \u00c7ekosllovaki, n\u00eb vitet \u201970. Dy njer\u00ebz takohen n\u00eb rrug\u00eb. \u201c\u00c7\u2019kemi Ji\u0159\u00ed, si je?\u201d P\u00ebrgjigjja: \u201cM\u00eb mir\u00eb se nes\u00ebr\u201d. Pra, k\u00ebshtu ishte at\u00ebher\u00eb, k\u00ebshtu mendonim n\u00eb at\u00eb koh\u00eb p\u00ebr t\u00eb ardhmen. M\u00eb pas, nj\u00eb njeri si Vaclav Havel erdhi dhe tha, \u201cjo, nuk e pranoj k\u00ebt\u00eb fataliz\u00ebm p\u00ebr at\u00eb bot\u00eb. Nuk do t\u00eb b\u00ebhem si Stefan Cvajgu, q\u00eb thoshte \u201c\u00e7do gj\u00eb ka marr\u00eb fund\u2019\u201d. Sigurisht, patjet\u00ebr q\u00eb duhet t\u00eb kemi nj\u00eb vizion p\u00ebr t\u00eb ardhmen dhe un\u00eb e kam. Dhe n\u00eb at\u00eb t\u00eb ardhme, duke qen\u00eb vet\u00ebm dje mora \u00e7el\u00ebsin e Tiran\u00ebs nga kryetari juaj i bashkis\u00eb, pres me padurim t\u00eb kthehem n\u00eb Shqip\u00ebri.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">Kryeministri Edi Rama:\u00a0 Nuk v\u00eb n\u00eb diskutim prirjen tuaj apo timen p\u00ebr t\u00eb par\u00eb p\u00ebrpara. Thjesht, po thoja q\u00eb ajo q\u00eb po shohim, p\u00ebrplasjet q\u00eb jan\u00eb kudo, jan\u00eb rrjedhoj\u00eb e nj\u00eb q\u00ebndrimi q\u00eb vjen shum\u00eb m\u00eb tep\u00ebr nga kthyerit t\u00eb kok\u00ebs pas sesa nga v\u00ebshtrimi p\u00ebrpara.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">Timothy Garton Ash:\u00a0Jam shum\u00eb dakord. Nj\u00eb prej problemeve gjat\u00eb k\u00ebsaj periudhe vet\u00ebp\u00eblqimi n\u00eb fillim t\u00eb viteve \u20182000, ishte se menduam q\u00eb \u00e7do gj\u00eb po shkonte si\u00e7 e donim dhe se e ardhmja na p\u00ebrkiste ne. Tani kemi problemin e kund\u00ebrt, mendojm\u00eb se e ardhmja i p\u00ebrket dikujt tjet\u00ebr.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><strong>Kryeministri Edi Rama:\u00a0 <\/strong>Sapo rastisa t\u00eb d\u00ebgjoja nj\u00eb intervist\u00eb prej t\u00eb shumtave t\u00eb Yuval Hararit dhe mbeta plot\u00ebsisht i befasuar nga nj\u00eb fraz\u00eb, q\u00eb, p\u00ebr mua, ishte kaq e bukur. U pyet si historian nga intervistuesi: \u201cJu, si historian, si e shihni at\u00eb q\u00eb po ndodh dhe \u00e7far\u00eb ju ka m\u00ebsuar historia rreth k\u00ebsaj?\u201d Ai tha: \u201cN\u00eb momente t\u00eb caktuara n\u00eb koh\u00eb, duhet t\u00eb p\u00ebrballesh me dy gj\u00ebra themelore: drejt\u00ebsin\u00eb dhe paqen. Gjithmon\u00eb, ajo q\u00eb ka qen\u00eb m\u00eb e mira, ajo q\u00eb ka funksionuar m\u00eb mir\u00eb \u00ebsht\u00eb q\u00eb, s\u00eb pari, t\u00eb sigurohet paqja dhe pastaj t\u00eb hidhen syt\u00eb nga drejt\u00ebsia, sepse n\u00ebse fiksohesh t\u00eb sigurosh m\u00eb par\u00eb drejt\u00ebsin\u00eb dhe pastaj t\u00eb kthesh kok\u00ebn nga paqja, nuk do t\u00eb kesh as drejt\u00ebsi, as paqe\u201d. Fantastike! Ju jam kaq mir\u00ebnjoh\u00ebs dhe, s\u00ebrish, ju fal\u00ebnderoj p\u00ebr anekdot\u00ebn. Po e mbyll jo me nj\u00eb anekdot\u00eb, por me nj\u00eb episod nga ish-Shqip\u00ebria komuniste, kur nj\u00eb student i arteve u kthye nga studimet n\u00eb nj\u00eb prej vendeve, nga \u00c7ekosllovakia, m\u00eb duket. Kur arriti n\u00eb faz\u00ebn finale dhe i duhej t\u00eb prezantonte pun\u00ebn e diplom\u00ebs, k\u00ebtu po hapej tashm\u00eb Instituti i Lart\u00eb i Arteve, akademia. K\u00ebshtu, profesori i tij \u00e7ekosllovak erdhi me t\u00eb dhe ai e ekspozoi pun\u00ebn e tij p\u00ebrpara tij e gjith\u00eb t\u00eb tjer\u00ebve dhe mori diplom\u00ebn. T\u00eb nes\u00ebrmen, kur shkoi t\u00eb shoq\u00ebronte n\u00eb aeroport profesorin e tij, profesori i thot\u00eb t\u00eb uroj gjith\u00eb t\u00eb mirat, por nuk ta fsheh dot q\u00eb e ardhmja jote ishte dje.<\/span><\/p>\n","protected":false,"gt_translate_keys":[{"key":"rendered","format":"html"}]},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Kryeministri Edi Rama n\u00eb serin\u00eb e radh\u00ebs t\u00eb Podcastit t\u00eb tij \u201cFlasim\u201d kishte k\u00ebt\u00eb her\u00eb historianin, autorin dhe gazetarin e famsh\u00ebm britanik, Timothy Garton Ash. Gjat\u00eb diskutimit u prek edhe dalja e Britanis\u00eb nga Bashkimi Evropian Historiani britanik \u00ebsht\u00eb shprehur se \u2018Brexit\u2019 ishte \u2018distafa m\u00eb e madhe politike e jet\u00ebs s\u00eb tij\u2019. \u201cP\u00ebr mua, Brexit-i [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false,"gt_translate_keys":[{"key":"rendered","format":"html"}]},"author":32,"featured_media":629114,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[65,13],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-629113","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-lajme","category-te-fundit"],"gt_translate_keys":[{"key":"link","format":"url"}],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.hashtag.al\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/629113","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.hashtag.al\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.hashtag.al\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.hashtag.al\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/32"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.hashtag.al\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=629113"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.hashtag.al\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/629113\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.hashtag.al\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/629114"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.hashtag.al\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=629113"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.hashtag.al\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=629113"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.hashtag.al\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=629113"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}